Let's be Men again....

[Kerf]

Found this video today, (Tok&Stok is a Brazilian Company) Anyways....lately I have been thinking on how nowadays kids don't have the opportunity to learn a craft from young age, in the past one could become an apprentice of a local master craftsman, after school and after chores were done.
I don't know if is laws making that kind of thing difficult or parents trying to provide for everything thinking that the young ones should not need to work.
But...
How can work ethics be taught ? Is it work ethics a thing of the past?

[LinuxRandal]

How can work ethics be taught, parenting.

While Child labor in the workforce has implications, there is still plenty of child labor out there (yard mowing, babysitting, etc).
Doesn't mean there aren't still good kids and bad.

[gsmittle]

How can work ethics be taught, parenting.

While Child labor in the workforce has implications, there is still plenty of child labor out there (yard mowing, babysitting, etc).
Doesn't mean there aren't still good kids and bad.

Warning! Rant Ahead!

What I'm seeing in the high school at which I teach is that students are taught to be passive absorbers of just enough information to pass a standardized test. Too much emphasis is placed on test-taking and not enough on doing. For many kids, by the time they get to high school they've been taught that if they can't get the correct answer the first try, they won't get it at all. How to think (as opposed to what to think) isn't taught, so by the time kids get to me they have had absolutely no practice in abstract thought, or inferring from what's implied in their material. My acting classes absolutely require making inferences and using one's imagination, and that throws many kids for a loop.

All this is not to say all tests should be abolished, just that we need to step back from the almighty standardized test and teach the process, not just the result. Nor should we deemphasize getting the right answer, but teach how to reapproach a problem if the first solution doesn't work. Right now, most kids simply won't practice enough to gain any real skill, and assume that their skills are much better than they actually are.

End Rant

[cabinetman]

While the video depicts learning a trade, inspirations for learning a trade is commonly handed down. Some European countries had their children in "trade" classes from early schooling, and that was intended to be their livelihood.

I believe that woodworking and furniture making is not as popular of a vocation as it was before all the RTA, and KD fixtures flooded the marketplace. With many schools dropping their "shop" classes, there's less of a motivation to learn on one's own.

.

[gsmittle]

With many schools dropping their "shop" classes, there's less of a motivation to learn on one's own.

.

IMO, a large part of the motivation for dropping shop classes is the liability issue. After all, you're using machinery that could sever a body part in a millisecond. If a district really wanted to reduce it's liability exposure, they'd eliminate contact sports.

g.

[durango dude]

It's Friday - and I've had a long week......

Click ignore right now if you don't really want to hear what I think.

[rant] Being a guy is downright illegal, these days. I dare you to try ---- just make eyes at a stunning, beautiful woman - and see what happens...... If you're at work - you'll get fired. If you're in public, you'll get scowled and frowned at......

High performance cars are bad for the environment - you're a bad person if you have one.

Heaven forbid you have a g..g.g.g.gggun.

I don't really get it - but I sure as heck live it - and it drives me nuts.......

AND --- that's here in rural Colorado. Have no idea what it's like in more civilized parts of the world.

Long live power tools......

[/rant]

[cwsmith]

My Dad was a WWII vet, and a guy who grew up in the depression. He lost his dad when he was only 12. My Dad went to work, and with his brothers helped support the family.

Growing up, I don't recall ever a day when my father wasn't working. I never saw him sit and just read the paper or watch TV and he never played a game with us. Yeah, we had family cook-outs and such, but for the most part, Dad just worked. And when I grew to a size where I was worthy, I worked too. No ball games, no after-school events, I just worked a lot. But, I did have time to myself too, mostly roaming the woods, hiking, x-country skiing in winters, etc.; just nothing that I could ever plan on or schedule, because I never knew when Dad might need me.

I resented a lot of that, but also learned a lot too. When I became a father, my old memories and resentments, made me want something different for my son. I figured his "job" was to just be a kid, have fun, be a good student, and enjoy his years... sort of you get to be "whatever age" only once.

Sadly, I think I was wrong! My son today is in his 40's. Smart as anything and a much better "people-person" than I am. But, he doesn't have any manual skills or interests whatsoever!

My grandsons are now 16 and 14 and they are very much like thier father. Very intelligent indeed, but no manual skills or interest.

It bothers me a lot, because while I never forced our son, I was always encouraging him to do things with me and I do that with my grandsons too! But, there is simply NO interest in doing anything with their hands, tools, or even doing much of anything outdoors.

There seems to be nothing in school either. Even things like science and special interest scholastic projects in our area seem to be based on "winning", far more than "learning". It concerns me that these little team efforts don't yield much in the way of innovative thinking and inventiveness as much as they do championing "winners" and demoralizing "loosers". Asking, "but what did you learn from the experience?", doesn't seem to be an objective.

I guess there was so much to learn and do just on your own when I was a kid. Now it's all about "scores", and video game points and who has what and why can't I get that too.

I guess I've lost some things over the years, as I sure have a tough time wondering what is to be gained by our school system today. Seems like we've lost the individuality and importance of "craftsmanship" for the majority.

CWS

[leehljp]

I see the same thing around me. I saw it in Japan too. To me, here in North America, if you ask a 40-ish adult or younger and even kids, "what did you do in your spare time?" Before video games, it was TV. Nothing wrong with TV per se, but when TV or video/computer games, becomes the baby sitter, or entertainer in spare time, a disconnect from the family begins to take place, values come from that, and peers, not parents.

This is not 100% true as there are exceptions, but there is a strong correlation. For people that spent time reading books like others watched TV or played vdieo/computer games, something else takes place with the "reader." For the heavy readers that I have talked to in depth, they describe a book and "what they see" as better than any movie that comes from the book. The point being is that in a heavy reader/bookworm, the mind becomes active and produces a "picture in the mind" (imagination) that is usually superior to a movie. This imagination is stimulating. Not saying that all bookworms are like this, but generally they certainly think in the abstract far better than TV/video game people do.

Don't get me wrong, TV is not the only thing but it is a contributor, and became a contributor when parents discovered that it could entertain the kids while mom or dad got work done. Major family disconnect took place there.

This is one area where we as parents failed to pass on the work ethic. Let the TVvideo game take our place. Quite different from card games and board games which brought about lots of family interaction!

[leehljp]

Warning! Rant Ahead!

What I'm seeing in the high school at which I teach is that students are taught to be passive absorbers of just enough information to pass a standardized test. . . . How to think (as opposed to what to think) isn't taught, so by the time kids get to me they have had absolutely no practice in abstract thought, or inferring from what's implied in their material. My acting classes absolutely require making inferences and using one's imagination, and that throws many kids for a loop.
End Rant

Interesting how the mind works when raised in different situations!

I am reading a book called "Bridges Out of Poverty". A major part of this book focuses on the "communication" methods of those in "generational" poverty. (Generational poverty is second, third and 4th generation of family in poverty.) The book was really addressing the miscommunication problems between police/law enforcement and Department of Human Services - with generational poverty folks. Generational poverty people speak in round-about language, very indirect. DHS and Law Enforcement ask direct question and expect direct answers. Constant mis-communication.

The Japanese more formal and polite language is very "indirect". For the most part, Japanese are not good at word math problems and have difficulty in solving them. Give them a formula and they can solve it.

Finding ways to communicate is difficult at times and finding ways to motivate people to "want" to communicate is even harder! The passive absorbing mindset is almost as having been on drugs.

[LinuxRandal]

The Japanese more formal and polite language is very "indirect". For the most part, Japanese are not good at word math problems and have difficulty in solving them. Give them a formula and they can solve it.

You gave strong evidence of that, when you were posting on Fukushima.

[LCHIEN]

the secret to real problem solvers is not plugging values into formulas but figuring out what the right formula is you need to use.

Then if you don't have all the numbers to plug into that formula, you need to figure out what they are.

The word math problems in school helped you figure out what formula you had to use. But they were a bit of a cheat since they gave you all the values you needed for the right formula and none extra. Then it was simply finding a formula from your arsenal of formulas that had the all the terms matching values they gave you and no terms using values they hadn't given you. Not exactly real life.

[Pappy]

I had a teacher my sr year that left a lasting impression on me. He taught an advanced math course that had either 8 or 9 students. At the beginning of the year he told us we would, if we survived, leave with a basic knowledge of trig and calculus but is real goal was to make sure we learned to think.

Mr Shropshire focused more on the method to solve a problem, than the final answer. After 46 years, I don't remember anything about the math but I know how to think through a problem or new task that I am not sure how to complete.

[gsmittle]

I had a teacher my sr year that left a lasting impression on me. He taught an advanced math course that had either 8 or 9 students. At the beginning of the year he told us we would, if we survived, leave with a basic knowledge of trig and calculus but is real goal was to make sure we learned to think.

Mr Shropshire focused more on the method to solve a problem, than the final answer. After 46 years, I don't remember anything about the math but I know how to think through a problem or new task that I am not sure how to complete.

Now THAT is a teacher! My Research from Hades (Research Methods & Techniques) prof in grad school was like that—he would poke and prod you until you came up with a workable solution to your research problem. (This was historical research, not scientific.) That's why I asked him to chair my thesis committee; I knew he would not accept slipshod work.

g.

[woodturner]

Being a guy is downright illegal, these days. I dare you to try ---- just make eyes at a stunning, beautiful woman - and see what happens

Edit: the following comments are my opinions, you are welcome to agree or disagree.

I'm troubled by these comments, and would argue that inappropriate behavior is not "being a guy". Men have brains and can learn to act appropriately - we are not slaves to our animal instincts.

Of course, if one is married, the only "beautiful woman" is one's wife, and no one minds when one makes eyes at her, and no married man should be looking at other women anyway.

As a college professor, I do find it disturbing that students enter college without the ability to think, in many cases to do fairly simple math, and no sense of appropriate conduct. Freshman are really mean to each other, and it is becoming culturally acceptable to be mean to others, make inappropriate comments to women, etc. One of the major tasks for our freshman engineering seminar is to teach the students how to behave professionally. It's no wonder graduating engineers can't solve problems or do research - they enter college with such a social deficit that it's not possible to teach them to survive in business and be expert engineers.

Regarding school shops, most schools around here have school shops, and all students must take introductory "industrial arts". It would be interesting to know how many high schools have really dropped shop classes, but my guess is relatively few.

[Pappy]

Of course, if one is married, the only "beautiful woman" is one's wife, and no one minds when one makes eyes at her, and no married man should be looking at other women anyway.

Just because you are on a diet, doesn't mean you can't read the menu!