Drainage Issues

[Pappy]

Over the last few years the vacant, wooded property surrounding our little neighborhod of 16 houses has been annexed by the city, rezoned to multifamily, and bought up by devolpers for new apartments. The property to my north is all commercial and developed so that area is safe. Grande Communcations is next to me.

My property backs up to the RR tracks andthe first devlopement was to the north starting about even with the corner of my property. The next area built was on the south side of the neighborhood. Two huge complexes were built and caused us some major runoff flooding problems. The land is higher than ours and after they stripped the folage, made some minor changes to the contour, and started paving the runoff was too fast for natural drainage and absorbtion. My new storage barn took on about 1/2" of water and the back porch was under about 4'. First time I had had water on the porch since the floods in '98. The area slopes down toward the interstae and several houses at the other end flooded. The city stopped construction until the developers reworked the drainage system to chanel the water away from us.

The last of the vacant property, directly accross the tracks and extending south from me, is now under developement. To avoid the same problems from happening again the city planning office, an engineer from the developers, and the railroad maintenance supervisor for the area met with me a couple of months ago to discuss putting a drainage ditch across the back of my property. There is a 3' drrain pipe adjacent to the south corner of my property to keep water from building up on the other side of the tracks. The only thing resulting from that meeting was my giving them verbal permission to survey the area.

Yesterday morning I got a call from the city planning office wanting send someone out to discuss getting access to the area through my back yard. Access from Grande's prporty is blocked by a telephone pole and some large trees. The man the came out is a project manager with a consulting firm. I;m not sure if he works with the city or the developer.

During the discussion he asked where my property line was. When I stepped up the slope toward the tracks to the survey stake he said he thought the work was all to be done on RR property, not just the right of way. The drain pipe is on my neighbors prpoerty and he said they will have to meet with him before any work can be done.

When I asked him about compensation for access to and use of my property, I got a 'deer in the headlights' look. The money is not really a major concern to me but I am going to try for it, especially since I will probably have to keep the ditch mowed so the water will flow prporly. I did tell them during the initial meeting that a precondition to any work would be to clean up the rock that washed down when the track berm broke through in the '98 floods and level the area so I can keep it mowed without damaging my lawn tractor. Right now I have to cut the area with a weed eater. This is about 245' long and 30- 40' wide.

Before any work is allowed I will insist on everything being in put in writing. If they say it is RR right of way and they don't need my permission for the work, they still have to deal with me for access. I also know from the initial meeting that the RR is going along with this on an unofficial basis.

Besides, I am an A**h**e and love screwing with the big guys!

[cabinetman]

Besides, I am an A**h**e and love screwing with the big guys!

They have their ways to get what they want. Under the guise of "betterment for the community", they could just condemn the part of the property they need.

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[pelligrini]

Before any work is allowed I will insist on everything being in put in writing. If they say it is RR right of way and they don't need my permission for the work, they still have to deal with me for access. I also know from the initial meeting that the RR is going along with this on an unofficial basis.

Good idea! Sounds like the developments around didn't get their drainage done right in the first place either, sounds like there should have been some retention going on.

[All Thumbs]

But aren't they making these changes to improve your situation (reduce flooding)?

I don't think I'd be in such a rush to be a thorn in their side.

OTOH, if they are using heavy machinery, I'd certainly look for projects around my property that need some help. Have any stumps you want uprooted? Demolition work? Grading? Watch any concrete they drive over, it if cracks, you can ask for new concrete.

[Pappy]

Got a call from the original surveyor today wanting to know if I would sign off on easment rights to cut the drainage ditch. I told him until I see the plans for the ditch and have in writing that they will be be responsible for, and repair, any damage they cause NOTHING will get my signature.

[chopnhack]

Good call Pappy, stick to your guns.

[RAFlorida]

You are doing it the right way sir.

Many companies don't give a cahoot about the home owners!

[capncarl]

We lived in a flood prone neighborhood for 29 years. Flood water was backed up by a usually dry creek that served well except for unusually large volumes of rainwater. The county provided for the maintenance (tree and brush removal) every 3-4 years and kept the flooding tollerable........ Until the last landowner of creek property sued the county for cutting down her beautiful trees, and won. Then came hurricane Dennis and dumped 15 inches of rain 20 miles upstream of us and flooded my neighborhood, some up to the bottom of their windows, me with 4 inches on the floor. Our neighborhood organized a suit against the tree hugging landowner (dr.s wife) that stopped the maintenance of the creek with no avail. My flood insurance reduced our loss to 30k. and prompted us to move shortly thereafter. The neighborhood has flooded 3 times since we left. I would love to tie the tree hugger to one of her trees while the creek rises. Enough said. Have you gotten flood insurance? If you allowed access and a drain ditch across the back of your property could you fence it off, deed it to the county and let them keep it mowed? It is not worth the heart aches. Capncarl

[Pappy]

I had another meeting with/visit from Tom Loomis, the engineer that is working as a consultant for the developer. He said that most of the trees, mostly China Berry, that have grown in the area between the back fence and the tracks will have to be removed during the work. He asked what I would like to be planted to replace them. Without hesitation I told him a row of Ligustrum.

I also brought up the fact that the project is going to create work for me keeping the drainage ditch cleaned and mowed so it doesn't get clogged. He said that might require a new mower. I got an email from Tom yesterday. The developer has agreed to plant the row of Ligustrum and to fund a new mower up to $3,000 retail.

Another email today asked if I was good with a zero turn Cub Cadet. The developer said he could have one delivered to my house. I am going to have to have more details before agreeing to that, like the model and accessories included. With my military discount I can get the 42" RZT Cub Cadet (22 hp Kohler motor) and the bagger attachment for under the $$ limit. The developer may have a better source for pricing but I expect him to match or better what I can get.

I missed a call from Tom today but will call him during my lunch break tomorrow. BTW, I found out he is not a project manager for the company, he is the owner.

[capncarl]

Sounds like Tom knows more about the problem than you think. Keeping you happy now allows him to move on with his project, which is making money. It doesn't matter if the problem really is fixed, it just appears to be ok now. Keep in mind that the lawnmower is only good for a few years before it turns into a maint problem, and hopefully you have many more years to live there, the next mower may be on you, or you may not be physically able to mow the ditch. Take it from me with 29 years experience in this field, a water problem is not a feature you want on your property.
capncarl

[cabinetman]

Is this just a "dangling of a carrot"? If you are happy with the immediate offers, and think there might be problems in the near future, don't let a lawnmower be a significant issue.

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[Pappy]

Actually the mower is a bonus in the deal. I would have agreed to the access and the easement for the water control ditch under just 3 conditions. First is a guarantee that the vegetation is replaced to block the tracks from view and aid in sound control. Right now the Chinaberry trees do that but don't help in the winter when they loose their leaves. Second that the area be clean of the rock that is there now so it can be maintained with a mower. Last is written assurance that any and all damage to my property caused by the work is repaired.

I'm sure the major concern from the contractor is not our properties, but fear that the city will shut him down like they did the last project if there is a problem. For me there may well be an added bonus. Currently the water that comes through the drain pipe under the tracks flows diagonally across my back yard in a natural low area. After a moderately heavy rain there is a back up in the area of the drive through gate, in front of the storage barn that can take 2-3 days to dry up. I made a dump run yesterday on my day off and, due to rains on Monday, had to use a garden cart and tractor to move everything to the drive way to load it in my truck. With the water being diverted across the back of the property the flow across the back yard may be eliminated or at least minimalized to the point that I can build up and level the area around the gate. I won't do that until we have had a couple of good rains and I can see how much water still flows through the yard.

[leehljp]

Any possibility for a low berm on the back side to divert the flow? I know you, or they, have probably already thought of this, but I didn't see it mentioned.

[JimD]

Is there any possibility they would put in an underground pipe with some inlets? It would be more expensive but should work better long term and your maintenance would be simpler.

[Pappy]

The developer was here Sunday with a Notary Public to notarize my wife's and my signatures on the easement papers. He paid the Notary for showing up and will have to pay him again on Wednesday when they come back. According to the 1" = 40' scale on the site plans where the north end of the ditch flares out to disperse the water into the field next door, it would be 85' wide. I told Jorge that he needed to get back out here with the engineers and resolve the issue or I wouldn't sign anything and in no way was I giving up that much land to them. When he asked if I had a ruler, he was a bit surprised when I brought out an engineering scale as well as the fact that I cold read the plans better than he could.

We kept thinking that something was amiss since the drawings and the measurements didn't match. Turns out the scale was wrong. It should have been 1" = 20'. The developer, engineer, and the Notary are coming back out on Wednesday to close the deal. I should have a corrected drawing in hand at the time.

As to the mower, Jorge has not been able to find a better deal than I can get so I will probably order it on my HD account and be reimbursed. If it goes that way, I will place the order and require the reimbursement check prior to any work being started.