Its getting ridiculous

[trungdok]

I've been using synthetic since I got my '05 car with Fram filter, changing it anywhere between 8K miles to 12K miles. My car manufacturer recommends oil change every 5K miles. Currently my car is at 260K miles and running strong in NE weather.

[woodturner]

Missing an oil change doesn't void your warranty. Extending the interval doesn't either. If something were to break (and something would have to go wrong, they just don't void it if you stroll in late), they would have to prove that it was a direct cause of what you did or did not do to the car.

If you make a warranty claim for engine damage and they see evidence or suspect oil change intervals as a cause, they will require you to produce proof of maintenance to receive coverage. They will accept receipts for materials for DIYers, etc. but they can and will require proof that the oil was changed at the specified severe service intervals. They do not have to prove that as a cause, the burden of proof is on the consumer to prove they complied with the maintenance requirements.

The results I've seen on most tests show that the oil is good longer than the recommended interval, dino or syn.

The oil change interval recommended by the manufacturer is an estimate - they conduct extended wear tests on a number of engines, then select the wear point they think is reasonable to set the change interval. No question that for many cars, the interval could safely be a little longer - and for some cars, that the recommended interval is too infrequent.

You have to remember that car manufacturers are intentionally thrifty with their recommendations on two levels - more money to be made from service, and less chance of them having to fix something.

It's much more complicated than that - they have to balance engine wear, consumer acceptance, and consumer compliance. Some think there is a more sinister or economic motivation, but it's really just an engineering tradeoff.

For about $10 more per oil change (and the peace of mind knowing I can go longer from like UOAs), I'll stick with synthetic.

To each his own. We drive about 20,000 miles a year per person, so the $15 per oil change cost increase for synthetics would cost us $180/yr, or 3600 over the life of the cars. Given that we typically run our cars for 300K miles or so, with no engine overhauls or other oil related problems, it's not worth the surcharge for no benefit for us.

[Stytooner]

On a different note. I just had to have a sensor replaced in my 06 Dakota.
It was a cam sensor. It is under warranty still. Bought it factory recertified.
The guy that replaced it said he looked at the spark plugs as well and they are the 100,000 mile type. No need to replace or adjust for that long.
I have never heard of those before.
Apparently police cruisers and other vehicles come with them too.
I then found out this was the same engine that comes in some Mercedes vehicles and then it became a little more understandable.

[tommyt654]

"Check the oil change deals at the auto parts stores, typically free to $15 for 5 quarts of oil and a filter"

While those deals are occasionally seen they are not the norm around here.(Not lately at least)Guess my point was lost in ya'lls conversations about oil changes with reg vs synthetic oil, the point was the current price gouging by the oil companys and distributors of oil based products in this country, its not about what you pay for your oil change or even if you do, if its yourself or you have someone else do it. The fact its become recently overpriced was my point, even the cheapest of brands at wallyworld and others have recently exceeded $3.00 a qt. Its ridiculous and personally I feel that we the consumers are being taken for a ride by big oil, thats all and the point I was trying to make, whether they feel obliged to screw us because of no more tax incentives or because they want payback for the mess they made in the gulf. Its once again about big oil profits and what they are doing to the country as a whole all for huge profits taken at the pump as well as the qt.Imagine how easy it would be on the country to recover and grow as a whole if gas and oil was priced and sold for reasonable profits rather than gouging. Gas should and can be sold in this country right now across the board for Less than $2.50 a gal and still show immense profits to big oil,Those qts I mentioned could be sold for $1.50-75 and still be profitable for them, it just needs to stop thats all I was saying\,its not about the length of changes,my older vehicles(I won't take the depreciative loss on a new car purchase). serve me well, my last truck went 400,000 plus miles with less than average oil changes and maintenance prolly due to advances made in oil chemistry. I don't drive them daily anymore and while the wife did purchase a new car she'll never see her money back out of it while I'll prolly still sell either of mine for profit. But the arguing here about cost of current oil changes and relative figures again are not the point I was trying to make

[trungdok]

The filter is a big one. Cheaping out there isn't worth the couple of bucks.

I agree. Good filter is a key to longer period between oil change. Most people don't think much about the filter.

The guy that replaced it said he looked at the spark plugs as well and they are the 100,000 mile type. No need to replace or adjust for that long.

You probably have the iridium spark plugs. Lots of new car now a day come with them as well as extended life coolant and tranny fluids.

[Cochese]

If you make a warranty claim for engine damage and they see evidence or suspect oil change intervals as a cause, they will require you to produce proof of maintenance to receive coverage. They will accept receipts for materials for DIYers, etc. but they can and will require proof that the oil was changed at the specified severe service intervals. They do not have to prove that as a cause, the burden of proof is on the consumer to prove they complied with the maintenance requirements.

Under any situation such as this, it's doubtful (depending on the dealer and regional rep) that the dealership would accept anything other than the dealer's own service records. The internet is littered with stories of dealerships trying to deny every sort of warranty work whenever possible - without any good reason except to be pricks. This is why Magnuson-Moss was enacted - to give the consumer some protection.

Now on the surface, it seems very clear what Magnuson-Moss was intended for -aftermarket parts and self-service. Amsoil (disclaimer - I have no love for them for fluids) is of the opinion (as am I, their legal department and several others) that this applies to service intervals as well. The intended purpose of a regular service interval is to maintain working order and prevent premature wear. If the extended service intervals still do these things, then there is no damage done, literally and figuratively.

The big stipulation in Magnuson-Moss is that the OEM must provide definitive proof a part or service was the cause of failure. This applies to lubricants the same as mechanical parts. The onus is on the OEM (and has been since longer than I've been alive) that a deficit in maintenance or a substandard part caused the failure. Always. Where it comes to lubricants is this: whatever you are using or doing, it needs to meet the same minimum requirements as ANY approved weight oil that they've set forth in their manual when it's time for that product to come out. Pretty hard to prove, right? That's why the act puts the onus on the party that has the resources to do it.

The other reason I agree with Amsoil's line of thinking is this: reciepts are good. I recommend them. However what do the prove, outside of the fact I bought something? That's no guarantee I ever changed the fluids.

Under the Act there is a mechanism for free arbitration, however most accounts I hear claim of a denied warranty (hint, it never was denied, just the claim made by the dealer) got resolved with a swift kick in the pants from the manufacturer.

[Cochese]

"Check the oil change deals at the auto parts stores, typically free to $15 for 5 quarts of oil and a filter"

While those deals are occasionally seen they are not the norm around here.(Not lately at least)Guess my point was lost in ya'lls conversations about oil changes with reg vs synthetic oil, the point was the current price gouging by the oil companys and distributors of oil based products in this country, its not about what you pay for your oil change or even if you do, if its yourself or you have someone else do it. The fact its become recently overpriced was my point, even the cheapest of brands at wallyworld and others have recently exceeded $3.00 a qt. Its ridiculous and personally I feel that we the consumers are being taken for a ride by big oil, thats all and the point I was trying to make, whether they feel obliged to screw us because of no more tax incentives or because they want payback for the mess they made in the gulf. Its once again about big oil profits and what they are doing to the country as a whole all for huge profits taken at the pump as well as the qt.Imagine how easy it would be on the country to recover and grow as a whole if gas and oil was priced and sold for reasonable profits rather than gouging. Gas should and can be sold in this country right now across the board for Less than $2.50 a gal and still show immense profits to big oil,Those qts I mentioned could be sold for $1.50-75 and still be profitable for them, it just needs to stop thats all I was saying\,its not about the length of changes,my older vehicles(I won't take the depreciative loss on a new car purchase). serve me well, my last truck went 400,000 plus miles with less than average oil changes and maintenance prolly due to advances made in oil chemistry. I don't drive them daily anymore and while the wife did purchase a new car she'll never see her money back out of it while I'll prolly still sell either of mine for profit. But the arguing here about cost of current oil changes and relative figures again are not the point I was trying to make

When you think about it, it's quite a wonder it's as cheap as it is. Dug up from hundreds of feet down, stored, shipped halfway across the globe in some cases, stored again, sent to special facilities where it can be separated and processed, stored again, shipped to a billion little shops all over the globe only to be stored again and use special dispensers to get into tiny containers that drive around everywhere. All while being taxed at multiple levels.

Oh, and it's flammable.

The problem, and it has been for awhile, is the speculators and the volatility of the market.

[Pappy]

Growing up, my dad swore by Penzoil and fram filters, so that is what I used. All the black, hard build up inside the valve covers was just normal. Found out that the Pennsyvania crude used to make Penzoil is the same stuff that asphalt is made from.

After switching to Valvoline the inside of the engines seemed to stay cleaner.

When I bought my Ram I found that it had always been run on Mobile One and did some research on synthetics. It was rated as one of the best brands on the market so I stayed with it. I also run their V Twin formula in my Harley.

Looking at filters, I found that Fram was one of the worst on the market and switched to Puroltor Pure One filters. Unfortunately for the Harlet the choices for filters are limited, at least in the stores or dealerships. Haven't looked on line for other options.

As to frrequency, I run 10,000 on the truck ans the wifes van with a fresh filter/top off at 5,000. On the Harley it's 5,000 and 2,500.

The Valvoline I had is being used for the mowers and generator. When it is gone, they are all going to Mobile One, too.

[chopnhack]

Several Mercedes Benz vehicles come from the factory filled with Mobil 1. Interestingly enough, they have an on board sensor that tells you when to change the oil, often times its 10k or more before changes. For some folks that can be a couple of years before an oil change.

[Cochese]

Several Mercedes Benz vehicles come from the factory filled with Mobil 1. Interestingly enough, they have an on board sensor that tells you when to change the oil, often times its 10k or more before changes. For some folks that can be a couple of years before an oil change.

I will say there's a caveat to some of the Benz extended intervals - the ones I know about are between 7-9 qt capacity. Less contaminates per particle, all that.

Valvoline and M1EP are my preffered flavors. The PureOne filters are pretty good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[chopnhack]

I will say there's a caveat to some of the Benz extended intervals - the ones I know about are between 7-9 qt capacity. Less contaminates per particle, all that.

Valvoline and M1EP are my preffered flavors. The PureOne filters are pretty good.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

The smaller vehicles are 6 qts IIRC - still helps out considering how the dino oil pricing is getting so high.

I use the same as you do, Valvoline syn for the minivan with pureone's, MB1 in the car. I did notice on the minivan's first extended oil change, the filter was slightly deformed - hence the change of filters more frequently than the oil. I think its because the filter media is tiny in comparison to other v6 engines and the surface area becomes clogged sooner than an extended interval would allow.

[Cochese]

I think everyone understands we aren't talking about 50k between oil changes (although I've personally seen 97k once on a Jeep - bless that Reliant I-6).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[chopnhack]

I think everyone understands we aren't talking about 50k between oil changes (although I've personally seen 97k once on a Jeep - bless that Reliant I-6).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

That Jeep must have had some loose tolerances!!

[tommyt654]

"The problem, and it has been for awhile, is the speculators and the volatility of the market. "

Agreed as any advances made in big oil (canadian or elswhere) will be met with less from OPEC to keep oil and gas prices as well as profits high,tho I did see a report stating that the large majority of OPEC members agreed that $50 a barrel oil still left it profitable for them to stay in biz

[cabinetman]

Guess my point was lost in ya'lls conversations about oil changes with reg vs synthetic oil, the point was the current price gouging by the oil companys and distributors of oil based products in this country, its not about what you pay for your oil change or even if you do, if its yourself or you have someone else do it.

But the arguing here about cost of current oil changes and relative figures again are not the point I was trying to make

Something like "lost in translation".

.