What Kind of Tires Do You Recommend?

[cabinetman]

The advice others have given about tread wear, hard vs. soft rubber, etc. pretty much are spot-on based on what (I think) I know. Soft rubber and/or tall sidewalls (the "/xx" part of the tire size --> bigger numbers = taller sidewalls) reduce the "jitter" in the ride at the expense of quick steering response and cornering precision. And soft rubber tends to wear faster. Those 80,000 mile warranty tires, and some "fuel saver" tires, use rubber that is darn hard and generally has less grip - emergency stopping distances likely increase with such tires. And they tend to ride harder too, passing lots of jitter into the vehicle.

There are two choices for buying tires. You can go to a tire dealer in your area, and buy from his stock (or what he can order). Or, you can order tires online from distributors like Tire Rack, or Discount Tires.

If you go to a brick and mortar store, you can view what the dealer has in stock. He may suggest going "one up" size, which is the next wider aspect ratio. That can be the start of him wanting to sell you wheels and tires. To maintain the overall diameter of the tire for your car, the "one up" may be an inch larger diameter of the rim, and a shorter sidewall for the tire, and in the process, you get a wider tread.

With the shorter sidewall, the comfort of the ride is affected, but the tire/wheel setup does give better handling for lateral forces. It's a misconception that a wider tire "puts more rubber on the road". For the car's weight, basically, a narrower tire will create a longer footprint, compared to a wider tire creating a wider footprint. The two footprints will be about the same square inch measurement.

The narrower tire is designed to offer a longer tread pattern for better stopping distances, whereas the wider footprint for cornering and lateral forces. If you are not a hot rodder, or a road racer type, and your driving is pretty much a civilized stop and go with traffic, a tire configuration as designated by your manual, or what's printed on the sticker on the inside of your driver's door will suit you best.

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[cabinetman]

Wet roads? At the time I thought they did fine but when I got a Starion (rear drive sports car, think Japanese Porsche 924) and put Toyo Proxes summer tires on it the Starion clearly out-gripped the Toyota in the rain. Surprising given a) the Starion tires are wide so you'd think they'd hydroplane more, and b) the Proxes tires were a summer tire, not all-season.
mpc

A wide tire compared to one narrower tire is more likely to hydroplane. A narrower tire has the ability to displace standing water better, as well as plowing through snow. A well designed tread pattern for providing good wet performance will have a defined tread, and sipes that draw water away from the center mass of the tire. Your safest tire in the wet would be a full tread (like a new tire). Of course, there are other variables, such as rubber compounds, heat ranges, age of the tire, and inflation pressures.

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[cabinetman]

* My Starion came with Yokohama A008R tires - supposedly a great summer performance oriented tire and rather expensive. They didn't last long - 18K miles or so. I replaced them with some other Yokos (A403's or something like that - less performance oriented) and they wore out quickly too.
mpc

When you say your Starion "came with" Yokohama A008R tires, I'm thinking that someone replaced what was on the car with those. IIRC, the A008R's were aftermarket, not a OEM tire. I've done quite a bit of club racing and autocrossing. When those tires came out, they were an instant hit. Club rules are that only D.O.T tires can be used. The "R" part of the tire stood for "race" in our book, as it was an extremely well handling tire. It wasn't designed for mileage...it had a very low treadwear rating. The only time I drove my competition car on the street with them is to attend very close local events.

As for the 403's, those too were a soft performance tire, that wouldn't have a high mileage payback. But, they were very good all around performance tires.

What is interesting is that many competitors that used their daily drivers, slapped on really sticky tires, but their suspension dynamics on a stock vehicle returned some really weird handling characteristics. When setting up a competition car, it takes a sorting out of setup and compatible components to allow a car to be controllable. I'm getting a bit carried away here, but back to buying replacement tires for a daily driver can have its caveats too. If a very high performance tire is used, without making other suspension changes, a driver can get beyond his skills, and become a passenger if driving the car seeking the tires' limits.

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[jseklund]

I haven't been a fan of a particular tire brand or specific make, until I got my last set of tires for my Acura. Continental ExtremeContact DWS. Very highly rated pretty much anywhere you look. When I bought mine almost two years ago, they were reasonably priced ($800 for 4, mount/balance/road hazard/tax).

+1

These are the ONLY tires I've EVER owned on ANY car that impressed me. Actually, while I didn't have any specific tire I liked, I usually hated Continental tires - so it's weird that my now favorite tire is a Continental.

I have them on an Audi A6 and I replace them about 1X per year (I drive about 40K-50K a year). I've had tires typically last about 50K in the past...these get maybe closer to 40K and they're bald. They don't last quite as long, but it's worth it and I get them for about $160 each installed (17" version)

They're all weather and actually handle great in all conditions. I've been on the highway in pouring rain and taken my hands off the wheel to show my gf how great they are (not smart - don't do this). They haven't ever let me down in the New England snow.

I've haven't talked to a single person who's actually had these tires that isn't a believer.

[Black wallnut]

If anyone cares I go with Specialized Armadillo Elite on my 9 month/ year ride, stiff, heavy and hard riding but the flat protection is top shelf! Les Schwab Wild Country on the Yukon. Toyo passenger non descript tires on the Samuri that are past their useful life span in time but only about half tread depth from new. They have been the best tires I've ever owned, great traction on all surfaces and long wearing but I am positive that the dry weight of the vehicle being 2K lbs. plays a huge factor and the fact that the car is incapable of high speeds does as well.

[woodturner]

He told me that Pirelli tires were great for racing because they were softer rubber and would grip better

Every manufacturer makes different types of tires, so it's not accurate to say "Pirelli tires are soft rubber" - it depends on the particular tire.

I had Pirelli M&S tires on a car, and while they lasted a very long time, the harder rubber compound used in those tires to extend wear life caused them to underperform on snow and ice.

I will say I have Michelin's on the truck and they have worn very well and also perform well in the snow.

The one thing I have noticed is that wider tires have more traction in the wet and snow, while narrower tires have less traction. Makes sense, given the physics, and is one reason the "mudders" off-roaders use are wide tires.

What's best depends on your driving habits and where you live. If I still lived in the Southwest, the hardest, narrowest tires would be best. Here where it gets cold and snows, wider, softer tires are better.

[woodturner]

($800 for 4, mount/balance/road hazard/tax).

Ouch!! I thought $600 for the Michelin's for the truck was high This was about two years ago, though, so maybe prices have gone up since then.

I have found that if I shop around, I can usuall find a local place that has pretty good service and pricing, usually better than Tirerack and the other online places.

[cabinetman]

The one thing I have noticed is that wider tires have more traction in the wet and snow, while narrower tires have less traction. Makes sense, given the physics, and is one reason the "mudders" off-roaders use are wide tires.

You aren't familiar with the dynamics. You have it backwards. They just call "mudders" that, not meaning they are for mud. They are off road tires meant for dirt and "off road conditions". For an easy explanation of how a narrow tire displaces water and gets to the traction would be indicative of the "swamp buggy races". They race in 1'-3' of water, and use very skinny tires to get to the traction of the bottom.

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[phrog]

First of all, let me thank everyone who replied. I have read every post and I had no idea that I was creating a monster when I posted this question. It seems there is a lot more to tires than I had imagined. Also, it is amazing that there are so many opinions out there about what is good and what is bad, but, then, that is why they make both chocolate and vanilla.

Secondly, before I had a chance to read your opinions, the decision was made for me. When I awoke this morning, I had a flat on the back and the only place close to me that sells tires is Wal-Mart. I went there to have the flat fixed so that I could make an informed decision later. Unfortunately, the tire could not be fixed. So I bought two Goodyear Vivas for the rear at a little less than $200 for the two installed with taxes, balancing, etc. This was far less than I had planned to spend for tires, so I may replace them in the not-to-distant future with four better tires if, indeed, there are much better choices out there. ( I had planned on $150 - $200 per tire.) Again, thanks to everyone and I will keep your opinions and suggestions in mind in the future.

[phrog]

Been thinking about that Bridgestone Toruanza tire in which the rubber is used to make those silent basketballs.

I wish the pharmacy students who lived in the dorm room directly above me in the late 70's had one of those basketballs at 2 AM every morning for a few years.

[phrog]

If you go to tirerack.com, you can sort results for your car based on the user reviews. Some people praise the Grabber HTS for tread longevity, for example. Others pan them for the same reason (I wonder if climate could be a factor). In any event, the Continental Cross Contact tires are the most highly rated tires at Tirerack.com, for your particular car.

Very interesting site. Thanks.

[phrog]

A few hints that might help. All tires have a treadwear rating, it's right on the tire. The lower the number (actually starts at zero) the softer the compound (wears faster, but rides better and has more traction). The higher the number the harder the compound (could be 200-400). There's quite a bit of info on the side of tires. In addition, you can tell when the tire was manufactured. This might be of some help...

I never knew there was sooo much info on the side of a tire. Thanks.

[phrog]

Note: I have read where the stock tires on some exotic sports cars are cost-is-no-object and they provide great speed, cornering and braking performance and safety but they cost $2000 each ($8000 a set) and they only last about 5000 miles (depending upon how fast you drive and how hard you brake and corner). Of course, for a $300,000 sports car owner, that should not be an issue. Anyway thats the extreme end of trading performance for economy.

Holy cow - sign me up for two sets - one for my Honda and one for my Ferrari.

[woodturner]

It seems there is a lot more to tires than I had imagined.

There really is a lot to the science of tires. In addition, each tire and application is different. As a result, people thinking of one situation may infer that their conclusions and experience apply more broadly than they do.

That's probably one reason some people think that narrow tires have more traction than wide tires. Given two tires that are identical except for width, the wider tire will provide better traction. However, in practice the two tires are very different and direct comparison is not practical. For example, wider tires are typically designed for higher traction, so they use a softer rubber compound, lower tire pressure, and softer sidewalls to increase the traction and contact pad size, but as a consequence they don't last as long.

Magazines such as Consumer Reports do review tires and can be a good source of objective information. Tire comparisons can also be found on websites, but it's prudent to make sure the testing was truly objective.

A number of the manufacturers have videos on Youtube comparing skid performance of their tires. One of those videos shows the effect of putting two replacement tires on the drive wheels. It causes loss of stability and skidding on ice and snow, which was not intuitive for me. The advice therefore is to put the replacement tires on the non-drive wheels, which it sounds like you did.

There are only a handful of tire manufacturers and they make tires under a range of brand names. The local tire shop I use can get any of them, but also knows which brands are made by which makers, and which "no name" tires are relabeled brand name tires, at a fraction of the cost.

I have had mixed success with Walmart. Turns out the auto and tire department that some but not all stores have is a concession - they hire a local company to provide that service, they are not Walmart employees. As a result, quality of service as well as prices vary between Walmarts, so it pays to shop around.

[cabinetman]

A point of interest in vehicle dynamics is that in the case of a flat while driving, it doesn't matter whether the car is front or rear wheel drive. The car is more difficult to control if the flat happens to one or both of the rear wheels. Advice for replacing only two tires is to have them mounted on the rear.

Of course, this doesn't apply to vehicles that steer with the rear wheels.

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