Lance Could Be Innocent

[cabinetman]

If Lance Armstrong was innocent of the drug allegations, I suspect that he would do all in his power to fight the charges to the very end. If it were me, I would want to protect what I worked hard to achieve. I would want that cloud removed.

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[sweensdv]

Or, he just got tired of having to defending his name 24/7/365 everywhere he went for the last few years. He took and passed who knows how many drug tests during those 7 years he won the Tour. I have to agree with him that he was the victim of a witch hunt. How does an agency that governs United States cycling have the authority to strip him of his Tour de France titles in the first place?

[tommyt654]

He passed over 600 test and never tested positive, the USADA is not recognized by the Bicycle Federation anyways and they run the Tour, so much ado about nothing afaic, http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/23/sport/...html?hpt=hp_c1

[All Thumbs]

Or, he just got tired of having to defending his name 24/7/365 everywhere he went for the last few years. He took and passed who knows how many drug tests during those 7 years he won the Tour. I have to agree with him that he was the victim of a witch hunt. How does an agency that governs United States cycling have the authority to strip him of his Tour de France titles in the first place?

IMHO, he will do anything possible to stop this now, rather than face the humiliation of ten (TEN!) of his former teammates and colleagues testifying against him. Or having to explain the two blood samples that are consistent with doping.

The evidence against the guy is simply overwhelming.

Unfortunately for Lance, I don't think this stops here. I know the feds decided not to prosecute him previously. But, the organization he is fighting now is a quasi-government body started by congress. And I think federal prosecutors could get involved again. I just don't think they're going to let him walk away from a fight and allow him to deny the charges. I think they're going to demand a confession with a little jail time.

[Black wallnut]

This has the potential to spiral out of bounds rather quickly. The Federal Government found there was not enough evidence to go to trial in a criminal case. USADA then took over. Even the Judge that ruled against Lance questioned the motives of the USADA. As a cyclist and cycling fan Lance is and always will be a champion no matter what some quasi-govt agency says. The UCI is not exactly siding with them at this time.

IMHO no good can come of this. Just like when Andy Schleck was after the fact given a victory the days of glory are long past.

[JR]

How does an agency that governs United States cycling have the authority to strip him of his Tour de France titles in the first place?

It's complicated.

Short answer:
USADA is responsible for pursuing drug cases for all US athletes who participate in Olympic sports.

Long answer:
First, bear in mind that none of this has much to do with the legal system. It's all done under the auspices of contract law, not criminal law.

USADA, the agency in question here, is one of the national entities that are part of the World Anit-Doping Agency, or WADA. All sports, inclucing cycling, that participate in the Olympics have signed on to the WADA drug-use protocols. This is true not just during the Olympic Games, but 24/7/365. Under those rules whea an athlete is found to have doped it is the repsonsiblity of the agency from the athlete's home county to pursue the case.

Usually these things are pretty straight-forward. An athlete pees in jar, they find PEDs, he gets suspended. For the first violation the WADA protocol demands a two-year suspension and loss of any honors gained in the event where the sample was taken. If the athlete doesn't object he is presumed to have committed the offense.



The athlete is not without rights:

1. He can demand that the second sample taken at the same time as the first one, the co-called "B" sample, be tested. This is to asure that some anomoly in the testing process is not at fault for the finding.
2. He can demand a hearing at which the drug agency must present it's findings to a panel of three abitrators. The athlete can rebut the agency's arguments.
3. The athlete can appeal the arbitration panel's finding to the Court of Abritrarion for Sport in Switzerland.

Armstrong's case is more complicated because he hasn't failed any drug tests outright. This is unusual, but not unprecedented - the Marion Jones/BALCO case comes to mind. In this kind of case the evidence is more like criminal evidence, but pursued in the arbitration environment.

It's not clear what evidence would have been presented by USADA. They are said to have eye-witness testimony from a number of Armstrong's teammates, some of whom could be dis-credited, but others who are beyond reproach.

USADA is also in possesion of evidence from the discontinued US Governement criminal investigaion. It is presumed that this would show the financial arrangements by which drugs were purchased and distributed by Armstrong and his partners.

Finally, it is rumored that there is evidence from the "Blood Passport" program in which professional cyclysts participate. This system is controversial and untested in the legal context. Riders give their blood at intervals throughout the year. A dossier of the results is kept for anaylsis by a panel of experts. Unnatural variations in blood components would be "proof" of a pattern of drugs use.

In the end, Armstrong has decided not to fight any of it, so we may never know exactly what evidence USADA has.

JR

edit: oh, one more thing. Armstrong has been relieved of all his titles since 1998, not just the Tour de France yellow jersies.

[Cochese]

IMHO, he will do anything possible to stop this now, rather than face the humiliation of ten (TEN!) of his former teammates and colleagues testifying against him. Or having to explain the two blood samples that are consistent with doping.

The evidence against the guy is simply overwhelming.

Unfortunately for Lance, I don't think this stops here. The organization he is fighting now is a quasi-government body started by congress. I think they're going to demand a confession with a little jail time. No confession = more jail time.

Out of how many?

Spent $40 million dollars fighting this, I'm sure he didn't want to end up bankrupt. In a sport where either everyone cheats, or everyone gets caught, he founded an organization that donates around $30 million yearly to fight cancer.

I choose to look at the bigger picture.

[All Thumbs]

Out of how many?

Spent $40 million dollars fighting this, I'm sure he didn't want to end up bankrupt. In a sport where either everyone cheats, or everyone gets caught, he founded an organization that donates around $30 million yearly to fight cancer.

I choose to look at the bigger picture.

I simply do not agree that everyone cheats. I do not even agree that most cheat.

As a society, we have to put a stop to this. This is theft, pure and simple. Lance Armstrong took tens of millions of endorsement dollars that rightfully belonged to the fastest guy that didn't dope. He took their glory, he took their fame.

What are you going to tell that guy? What if that guy is your kid, or your brother? Is it okay he got cheated out of everything that was rightfully his?

This is not some sort of victimless crime.

[Cochese]

I simply do not agree that everyone cheats. I do not even agree that most cheat.

As a society, we have to put a stop to this. This is theft, pure and simple. Lance Armstrong took tens of millions of endorsement dollars that rightfully belonged to the fastest guy that didn't dope. He took their glory, he took their fame.

What are you going to tell that guy? What if that guy is your kid, or your brother? Is it okay he got cheated out of everything that was rightfully his?

This is not some sort of victimless crime.

If society is more concerned about who won a bike race than trying to find a cure for cancer, then count me out.

I also don't agree with an organization taking the stance of, 'we held out longer so we win.'

If he cheated, and to me this is still a case of He said, He said, then I'd have to argue that this is one of the rare cases where the ends justify the means.

[All Thumbs]

If society is more concerned about who won a bike race than trying to find a cure for cancer, then count me out.

I also don't agree with an organization taking the stance of, 'we held out longer so we win.'

If he cheated, and to me this is still a case of He said, He said, then I'd have to argue that this is one of the rare cases where the ends justify the means.

How do you know the rightful winner wouldn't have raised twice as much, and personally discovered a cure for cancer by now?

[Cochese]

How do you know the rightful winner wouldn't have raised twice as much, and personally discovered a cure for cancer by now?

Perhaps you can point out other riders with similar medical backgrounds as Lance.

Don't forget, he started Livestrong before he won his first tour. Just winning a stage with his history got the sponsors to buy in.

[Bruce Cohen]

Ever wonder why Cheryl Crowe dumped him???

Steroids totally mess with your love life.

[tommyt654]

I'm still waiting for the WMD'S (weapons of massive doping) to be proven scientifically,so far just a lot of hype and rhetoric from a classless organization using the US name from what I can see, not readily available for comments or even readily recognized by world standard authorities from what I can gather,can't say as I blame Armstrong,but hey where's all the evidence and then even those can be at this stage of the game tampered with to change the game. If he passed the test while in pursuit of the win then as far as I can see HE WON, end of story

[JimD]

I'm not sure what to think about Lance but I am concerned when governmental agencies with unlimited budgets go after somebody repeatedly. Lance doesn't seem like he is without financial assets but I also doubt they are endless like our governmental agencies seem to have. While Lance has rights, it could be very expensive for him to effectively exercise his rights. I can see a basis for a claim that he cannot fight this forever. At some point, he would lack the financial resources to continue the fight.

Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable. Multiples is more credible but passing all your tests is more concrete to me than people saying he did something. I need to hear it explained how he passed if he did what they say he did.

Jim

[Black wallnut]

Ever wonder why Cheryl Crowe dumped him???

Steroids totally mess with your love life.

LOL perhaps he heard her talk about only using one sheet of tp? She is not that easy on the eyes either IMHO. Thnaks Bruce I did need the laugh today!