Are Blue Lines Out?

[cabinetman]

I wonder if anyone uses them anymore.

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[pelligrini]

Yea, pretty much. I think the only places using them now are some old firms hanging on to some really old tech to run a few large format copies in house. I hated blue line machines, still do. The convenience was nice, but the tech is dangerous and unhealthy.

Just this last Monday the owners brother was clearing out an old storage area we have. He came in carrying a gallon of ammonia asking what it was. I told him to be careful with it, and don't just toss it in the trash.

When I was looking for a new large format plotter for our office there were many models and makers that also included a large format scanner.

[jking]

Very seldom do I see a set of blue lines. Once in while, but, it's rare. It's actually becoming less common to even receive a set of paper plans. Many times we receive electronic files & print them outselves if needed.

[cwsmith]

We used to refer to them as "blue prints", though "blue line" seems to be the later popular term. I grew up in a town known for the technology, with "Ozalid", "GAF" (and it's predessor "Ansco"), and "Bruning" all being pioneers in that business, among others.

Nothing quite like the smell of ammonia and it was sort of synonomous with being in the drafting room when I started my career. When I moved to Ingersoll-Rand, blue-prints were the mainstay in the Engineering Dept and drawings were identified by the size of the drawing which dictated how and where it was stored. Like a "G" was the largest size, then "F", "D", "C", "B" and "A" with the latter being 8-12 x 11.

This was so entrained in the mind of the drawing room that when they finally moved to straight numeric numbers (8-digits), the manager assigned number groups of numbers to continue this "sizing" mentality.

By the time the 80's rolled around, most of the drawings were now being micro-filmed, put on "aperture cards" and by the 90's we were producing drawings on CADEM. When I departed in 2003, the "blue print" department was still there, but I think the ammonia blueprinter was long gone. Everything was sort of Xerox-like, though there were a couple of plotters in the more remote drawing areas. Electronic retrieval and review being the mainstay.

"BluRay" as we know it today, refers to the HiDef DVD, but the first use of "Blue-Ray" as I knew it, was for a small blue print machine widely popular back in the 60's and 70's which was made by Bruning. Oce, was a European company (Sweden?), that I believe later bought out or merged with Bruning. They (Oce) made a wet ammonia solution printer which produced a damp print which had to be dried. Cheaper than the gaseous ammonia machines and not quite as smelly, but the drawings were messier to handle.

CWS

[cabinetman]

Nothing quite like the smell of ammonia and it was sort of synonomous with being in the drafting room when I started my career.
CWS

I've always maintained at least one drafting table in my drafting room, but all I could create in there were "sepias". But, after stashing rolls of prints, unrolling and rolling and sifting, that ammonia odor permeated.

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[pelligrini]

We used to refer to them as "blue prints", though "blue line" seems to be the later popular term.

I ran across a set of blueprints today when I was clearing out all the mess on top of some of our flat files. They were dated from '62 for a church addition we did several years ago. The draftsmanship was pretty awesome, and the blueprint was still very readable. The bluelines from a later set of drawings to that project had faded quite a bit.

I always understood that blueprints were white linework on a dark blue background which were reproductions of linework on translucent paper (vellum, mylar etc). Later were bluelines which created blue lines on a light background, and after that a similar process was able to create black linework from the translucent originals. I really loved it when we were able to get erasable vellums made.

I sure don't miss poche'-ing all the walls with a red pencil on the backside of plans anymore. Especially right when we started using CAD. It was too easy to some plan tweaks and make another plot on our old pen plotter, adding the poche' was still a pain.

[Pappy]

Back in the late 60's I worked for the drafting department of a steel subcontractor. One of my duties was to run prints on the blue line diazo machine. After a while I got to where I could work in that small room for over an hour without the ammonia fumes bothering me.

I use to take the spent ammonia to my dad to use for cleaning. After it was too weak for the machine, it was still about 3x the strength of household ammonia. I keep a bottle of 26% ammonia for fuming and every time I open the bottle I wonder how I was able to work in a closed space with the stuff.

[T...K21]

My FNL still prints blueprints in his shop for clients he draws for. He has it set up in a separate room with vents and fans away from his office and shop.

I still prefer a drafting table over CAD. I like paper...

[sscherin]

I'm kinda the same way.. For small projects I prefer to work from paper.

I remember the Diazo machine from drafting class in High school.. My dad still has some of the blue line 3 view aircraft drawings I did back then.

A few years ago we moved down the block from my old HS drafting teacher. We were his last class before he retired. When I was unpacking I ran across a stack of my old drawings from class and showed them to him.. It was funny when we went straight into teacher mode and said I see what you did wrong here and proceed to tell me exactly why that drawing got the grade it did.. Lol. Retired 25 years and he didn't miss a thing.

[cwsmith]

Eric,

I do not know the term "poche' " that you used. What exactly is that?


*****

While I too very much like drawing on "vellum" (I still have almost a full roll), I have given the space for the drawing table up to one of the shop machines. Just no room here. I do have a couple of folding drawing tables as well as a large table top that I used to use, they just don't get used anymore. Sadly, is the fact that my remaining two parallels are simply so old that the plastic edges have yellowed and cracked.

(A couple of years ago, when I was moving stuff down to this house I went through a bunch of stuff that I had stored away... felt like I was an archeologist in the midst of a "dig". Stuff was yellowed, too often briddle, and in some cases, protective foam (like in my air-brush case) was just powder.... It was like, MAN, am I that old?)

I had to throw away a couple of cartons of "cartoon color", transfer type, arrows (used for "leaders" on exploded view parts illustrations), and just too many other things, which were aged beyond usefulness. SAD!!!

I jumped to the computer for my drawing/illustration needs back in the late 80's. I live in fear that eventually that program will be obsoleted by a Microsoft upgrade, as such upgrades have too often nullified other favorite programs.

CWS

[pelligrini]

Eric,

I do not know the term "poche' " that you used. What exactly is that?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/poch%C3%A9

Basically, shading. On our architectural floor plans we would color in the walls with a red pencil on the back of the drawing. When looking at the originals the walls would appear shaded with a reddish tint. The reproductions would produce shaded walls. We didn't want them totally opaque, just enough for the walls to pop and still see dimension lines and tick marks.

We did that a lot with CAD drawings off our pen plotters too. Pens don't do solids well and fine hatching takes way too long for the plot to finish. Wasn't a problem when we finally got an inkjet plotter.

One of my Mayline drafting tables is my CAD station at the office. The wide flat drawer is now a keyboard trey. I made a new drawer front with a cutout for the keyboard and mouse areas. My folding adjustable table is my computer station at home (pretty much just a big desk now). Both have have been fitted with a low monitor shelf. The shelf is 48" wide 12" deep and with about an inch opening. I can still place a 24x36 or 30x42 drawing on my desk. I have another Mayline in my home office. It's usually used as a table though. The wood top sure does look good with a few coats of poly.

[cabinetman]

One of my Mayline drafting tables is my CAD station at the office. The wide flat drawer is now a keyboard trey. I made a new drawer front with a cutout for the keyboard and mouse areas. My folding adjustable table is my computer station at home (pretty much just a big desk now). Both have have been fitted with a low monitor shelf. The shelf is 48" wide 12" deep and with about an inch opening. I can still place a 24x36 or 30x42 drawing on my desk. I have another Mayline in my home office. It's usually used as a table though. The wood top sure does look good with a few coats of poly.

My first tables were from 3'0" x 6'8" doors covered with Borco, and a 48" Mayline parallel. I still have a few wood Stewart "T" squares.

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[LinuxRandal]

Never heard the term blue line, only ever heard them called blue prints. I heard a discussion a couple years back, about an architect that used to be in our building. He was the ONLY one an electrician friend of mine, knew that drew them and still included all the electrical locations, plumbing, etc.
I think it would be nice to have, but digital camera's during the build have cut into that.

[LCHIEN]

for large corporations with many drawings and a large production group I'm sure that large format xerographic printers are used... every engineering company i've worked at for 25 years has used them. This is especially prevalant as they are fast and clean and most old pencil and paper C- and D-size drawings have been large format scanned, and newer drawings produced on CAD and can be plotted directly to these printers.

However, I'm sure there are some old school small companies, like one- or two-man architects who still do blue line diazo blue prints. The equipment can be picked up cheap (or they've had it for years) whereas a fast, large format printer might cost $10,000. Hard to justify for a few prints per week and a shoestring budget.

In engineering offices, it's convenient to look at large prints on your computer screens (altho detail may be too small to read without zoom) rather than go to paper. But people still need large format prints for production areas and building sites where there's no computer displays, bright sunlight, no power and no network connections.

[cabinetman]

Never heard the term blue line, only ever heard them called blue prints. I heard a discussion a couple years back, about an architect that used to be in our building. He was the ONLY one an electrician friend of mine, knew that drew them and still included all the electrical locations, plumbing, etc.
I think it would be nice to have, but digital camera's during the build have cut into that.

On occasion I still get a set of rolled plans (blue lines) from a GC or another cabinet shop for a bid. Some include drawings done by subs (electrical, plumbing, structural).

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