Whirlwind Safety Device Patentend

[Eagan]

I never get anything first so this is probably old news to you. In case it got missed, however, thought I'd share it.

http://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/ne...146035635.html

[LinuxRandal]

Good to see the patent finally issued. We talked about this system before, and I would like to see it on a Sharkguard. I contacted him through his website but never heard a response back. We will have to see some things like what kind of prices are offered, and then I figure the liability issues become a whole different ballgame with a DIY kit.

[Stytooner]

Personally I think if you use a guard, then the device itself is redundant. Redundancy, however is not a bad thing. The bad part is that you cannot use the saw without a guard in place with this system. I don't think people are ready to do only those cuts that are allowed with a guard on a table saw. Many still will not use a guard for various reasons. For those, this won't be an option.
There may be a time in the future that this becomes common, but I doubt it would even have a market now.
I have been wrong before though, but time will tell. Maybe I would think differently about it if it was on a Shark Guard, but in that case, the guard would be a minimal percentage of the cost. I think Saw Stop is a better option in that case mainly because it is being field tested pretty widely right now. It's proving to be quite effective.

I do hope to see more progression in the design of this though. I think he is on the right track for the future and I wish him all the best.

[jseklund]

Wow, I've heard about this and talked about it to people - never realized the guy doing it lives about 10 minutes from me....cool. It's almost like being famous myself.

[tommyt654]

There are a lot of folks that have been blinded by the hypocrisy that comes out of the Sawslop offices regarding what their so called mission was/is. At least this guy is up front about things. I think operating a saw without a guard is just plain stupid,agreed there are cuts that you cannot make on a tablesaw with a guard in place, thats why we have bandsaws, handsaws and the like.I only use my tablesaw for random large cuts in dense wood that otherwise I make use of my bandsaw for. When I actually think about it the tablesaw is the least used item in my shop. Its only used for initial cuts and then mainly sits idle as part of a workbench most if not 90% of the time. So this is a no brainer for me. I have my guard on my saw and use a push stick, still have 10 digits,still have no need for either product. I could get by without it, however I do not think I can say the same for my bandsaw

[woodturner]

How does he stop the blade?

Anyone know how he is stopping the blade? Searched the website but he doesn't seem to explain that. The videos show a braking effect on the blade, but it's not clear what technology is used.

[Stytooner]

I am not sure either, but I always thought something like a caliper on a disc brake system could be used. It would be cheap, fast and strong and not damage the blade. It might have alignment issues though with different thickness blades.
A motor brake would stop fairly fast too, but then you have belts and freewheeling to contend with. That might actually loosen arbor nuts.

I didn't read all of his patent, but I am sure there is a clue in there somewhere.

[jdon]

From this story, it looks like an electronic motor brake:

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/02/149843...eets-table-saw

[pelligrini]

Good find jdon.

From the NPR article:
Butler's system works using something called electronic braking. Power saw motors — like electric lights, appliances and basically everything we plug into the wall at home — run on AC power. It's the electrical power standard in the U.S. But, according to Butler, if you cut that power in exactly the right way, it's "like pulling the plug out of the wall." And if you then hit it with a jolt of DC current, that's like slamming on the brakes — within a second, Butler says, "you can stop the motor."

I wonder how the belts on a BT would handle the motor stopping? Would it be much different than starting the saw?

[Stytooner]

I think the arbor nut would be an issue on a BT.

[pelligrini]

Agreed, especially since I learned it doesn't need a death grip tightening.

I think the Whirlwind has a lot of merits, especially if it can be adapted to work with a wide range of saws already sold and in use. The reliance on a guard may be a big drawback, especially depending on how some future legislation might possibly be written (CSPC and California).

[tommyt654]

Personally I'm hoping the legislation involves that removal of the guard from any machine results in revocation of liability from the machines company and places blame and liability for any subsequent injurys squarely on the shoulders of those who do so.Perhaps then these frivoulous and stupid lawsuits that only benefit the atty's in most case's will cease and folks will learn that they are accountable for there own mistakes. As far as having this Whirlwind usage resulting in arbor nut issues, common sense would dictate checking it before reusing it after a stop.I'm sure once it hits the market there will be something about that somewhere in the instruction manual. Sty aren't you working with Gass and Co. on some sort of guard developement issues? That kinda says a lot about your input here being somewhat biased against the developement of the Whirlwind or maybe not

[Stytooner]

I thought I cleared that up with you once, but I'll try again.
The only contact I ever had with Gass is after a thread on Woodnet started about Saw Stops claims of 99.5% dust collection on their guards.
He sent me one of his guards and I sent him a 2.5" style Shark Guard so that we could test them head to head.
A third party actually did the testing though and the results were that they both were about the same. Basically what I figured.

It was basically a contest, so how you construed that into working with Saw Stop is unclear to me. I have just as much affiliation with Saw Stop as I do with Delta or Ryobi. That is NONE.

This means there is no bias and I just posted what I thought. If anything, rather than bias, as a blade guard maker, you might take my comments as more of an insight instead. From where I am sitting, his device is not ready for prime time for a few reasons. Still has a few bugs to work out as well as coming up with a better design to implement that device on. If he had something like that, he might have been approached by a manufacturer by now.
Personally, I would not attempt to market what I saw in the videos. Thats just me though. You know, Saw Stop's most under paid affiliate.

[pelligrini]

You know, Saw Stop's most under paid affiliate.

What?!? You're not really in cahoots with Gass, the CSPC, and the State of California conspiring to put a SawStop in every shop?

[Stytooner]

What?!? You're not really in cahoots with Gass, the CSPC, and the State of California conspiring to put a SawStop in every shop?

Of course I must be. I'm just not aware of it yet.