ca glue may create toxic fumes when heated

[herb fellows]

I just read an article which said that ca glue, when heated, may create cyanide gas fumes. The writer claims he passed out on the floor while heating something that had ca glue near it.

As a jeweler hobbyist, I know that cutting the mineral malachite can produce arsenic gas. This is one of the first things you learn because it can be so dangerous.

I don't personally know the ca glue statement to be true, but I thought 'better safe than sorry'.

[BobSch]

Something else I wasn't aware of is its reaction with cotton:

Applying cyanoacrylate to materials made of cotton or wool (such as cotton swabs, cotton balls, and certain yarns or fabrics) results in a powerful, rapid exothermic reaction. The heat released may cause minor burns, and if enough cyanoacrylate is used, the reaction is capable of setting the cotton product in question on fire,

[leehljp]

Something else I wasn't aware of is its reaction with cotton:

Applying cyanoacrylate to materials made of cotton or wool (such as cotton swabs, cotton balls, and certain yarns or fabrics) results in a powerful, rapid exothermic reaction. The heat released may cause minor burns, and if enough cyanoacrylate is used, the reaction is capable of setting the cotton product in question on fire,

Using a folded paper towel to apply CA finish to a pen does cause the exothermic reaction. This is a desirable reaction, especially in cooler weather and it decreases the curing time.

One of the side effects of CA is the allergies that it causes to some people. For some it is the fumes, for others it is the CA dust and of course for some it is both. I made pens for two years without a single problem. Then in one months time, I went from getting a slight sniffle at the beginning - within a couple of hours after finishing a pen - to getting a full blown flu like symptoms. On the pen turning forum, several people experienced the same thing.

The thing about this allergy is that the body is tolerant of the allergen and suddenly, it isn't. For me, I can complete a pen and feel fine, then suddenly two hours later, I develop a heavy runny noise followed by congestion within half an hour then sneezing and wheezing exactly like a flu. A couple of times, I even got blurred vision. After this happened about 4 times, I installed a dust collection system for the lathe, started wearing double canister face mask and kept a wet cloth nearby to dust myself off after making and sanding a CA finished pen. I also added a fan at the end of the lathe to blow any escaping dust and fumes (that didn't get sucked into the DC system) away from me.

For me and some others, it is something we don't play around with. AS to the burns, Yep, several report doing this while making a pen! I too have been burned! Not fun but it is funny! I sometimes apply it with a rubber glove as it makes a very smooth application. However, if the CA decides to cure suddenly, I have had it catch my rubber gloves while the pen is spinning and rip the rubber gloves off of my hand! It is not recommended to use cotton or leather or other type of gloves as those can pull the hand into the turning lathe. The rubber gloves just snap off and make a mess to clean off of the pen!


OH, as to the writer of the article, CA does not create cyanide gas fumes. This was a discussion that was brought up on the pen forum a couple of years ago. I had made the comment that it is probably some sort of cyanide fumes. I was quickly rebuffed by some knowledgeable folks with solid and sound information from EPA and other reports.

[Pappy]

OH, as to the writer of the article, CA does not create cyanide gas fumes. This was a discussion that was brought up on the pen forum a couple of years ago. I had made the comment that it is probably some sort of cyanide fumes. I was quickly rebuffed by some knowledgeable folks with solid and sound information from EPA and other reports.

I read the comments about the cyanide with some doubt. Considering the minute amout required to be lethal, that would have CA glues banned from public sale by the gov't.

[herb fellows]

Well, that's good to know. Not that I planned on heating any up soon, but you never know. The allergy info was really interesting to me also, as I'm generally prone to allergies. So far, no problem with the ca, but if I start to get unexplained flu symptoms, I'll know where to look.
I learned something else though, the bit about q tips and ca glue. I have used q tips dozens of times with ca glue, mostly when trying to get into tight spaces with it. While I've never experienced a 'exothermic reaction', I'll certainly back off from that adventure now!

[TB Roye]

Hank

I to have sinus problems with finishing with CA glue. It has gotten to the point where I am going to buy a Triton full coverage shield with the internal fans to keep the fumes/dust out. I think it is because I have become older and more sensitive to these fumes and dust, that it bothers me so much.

Just checked on the Triton and Trend air shield/respirators, neither are recommended for fumes. Well off to the Army Navy Store to get a surplus gas mask. I think I need to creat more of an air flow over the Lathe and make sure I turn the noisy dust collection on. I don't have the problem when the warm weather is here as I have the shop opened up or I take the Lathe out on the deck.

Tom

[bthere]

The exothermic reaction is kind of interesting and can be helpful. During pen turning, I use a medium viscosity CA glue which has a slightly longer cure time. I usually apply with a paper towel or a small plastic bag. I don't like to use an accelerator to hasten the cure, so I have to be careful to wait for the current layer of CA to harden before my next step , whether it is another application of glue or a sanding step. One of my cues that the glue has hardened is the "smoke" that comes from the paper towel that was used to apply the CA.

I've used nitrile gloves to apply the CA, and have also had the fun experience of having the finger of the glove ripped off by the curing glue.

Due to the potential for allergies and the general irritation that can come from exotic woods as well as finishes, I use a canister type dust mask as well as a face shield and long sleeve smock when turning. I usually have the air filter running and a fan blowing across the lathe. I am hoping that this will help keep me from getting sensitized down the road to any of the by products.

[MilDoc]

From an industrial web site:

"Toxicity
The fumes from CA are a vaporized form of the cyanoacrylate monomer that irritate sensitive membranes in the eyes, nose and throat. They are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert. These risks can be minimized by using CA in well ventilated areas. About 5% of the population can become sensitized to CA fumes after repeated exposure, resulting in flu-like symptoms.[5] It may also act as a skin irritant and may cause an allergic skin reaction."

From a toxicology web site:

"CAUTION: Previous literature has reported release of deadly cyanide gas at temperatures1 as high as these mini-torch kits. (such as used in evidence fuming ala CSI. Note they use high temps) Although the amounts of dangerous gases produced may be minuscule, extreme caution is urged in working with these kits.

I'd worry more about cyanide released in cigarettes and from heating certain plastics. I doubt the heat reaction from Super Glue use reaches the temp of a mini torch.

[crybdr]

I've used CA for numerous fixes at home and at work with 'kicker' without any abnormal reactions.

But, I did have a weird experience re-affixing the soft center dome to a speaker woofer that had separated - American Acoustics D4550E's.

The soft center dome had completely separated from the woofer and was bouncing around between the cabinet and the speaker cover (I bought them used). I laid a thin bead of CA around the perimeter of separation, dropped the dome carefully on the woofer - and POW, I was assaulted by fumes I've never encountered before. I left the room and came back after a couple of minutes.

All's well, the speaker has held together to this day (despite my loud music), and I don't think I experienced any health damage.

Still....a strage experience with CA glue.

[MilDoc]

Gotta be careful when you use CA glue on any fabric. From what I've read some have nasty reactions. But no cyanide.

[thomasfrank]

This post is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks so much for posting. qe mes io

[capncarl]

I too have been noticing a running nose and sniffles showing up several hours after I’ve locked up shop. Each time it’s after I’ve filled in cracks in pink dogwood tiny trees. I’ve been thinking it could be the dogwood…. and it may well be, but it is the only wood I’ve used ca on. When I sand then polish it the ca produces an eye burning foul smell.

Thanks for the heads up! I’ll put the ca crack filled trees aside for a couple of days to see if the sniffles go away.

[capncarl]

[QUOTE=MilDoc;n687231]From an industrial web site:

"Toxicity
The fumes from CA are a vaporized form of the cyanoacrylate monomer that irritate sensitive membranes in the eyes, nose and throat. They are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert. These risks can be minimized by using CA in well ventilated areas. About 5% of the population can become sensitized to CA fumes after repeated exposure, resulting in flu-like symptoms.[5] It may also act as a skin irritant and may cause an allergic skin reaction."

From a toxicology web site:

This is an old post that was dredged up this morning. I did a little closer reading and noticed something that MilDoc said, that the vapors irritate the sensitive membranes in eyes, nose and throat and are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert.
Thinking on that makes me wonder if the vapor has the same properties as the glue itself? If that could be the case then tiny pieces of CA glue could be setting up in the voids in the membranes of our eyes, nose and throat.

[Wright123]

[QUOTE=capncarl;n854728]

From an industrial web site:

"Toxicity
The fumes from CA are a vaporized form of the cyanoacrylate monomer that irritate sensitive membranes in the eyes, nose and throat. They are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert. These risks can be minimized by using CA in well ventilated areas. About 5% of the population can become sensitized to CA fumes after repeated exposure, resulting in flu-like symptoms.[5] It may also act as a skin irritant and may cause an allergic skin reaction."

From a toxicology web site:

This is an old post that was dredged up this morning. I did a little closer reading and noticed something that MilDoc said, that the vapors irritate the sensitive membranes in eyes, nose and throat and are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert.
Thinking on that makes me wonder if the vapor has the same properties as the glue itself? If that could be the case then tiny pieces of CA glue could be setting up in the voids in the membranes of our eyes, nose and throat.

I think it's more or less true. They will be extremely toxic if exposed to them for a long time.

[capncarl]

Before this post alerted me to hazards of CA fumes I was in the practice of turning off the dust collector that was positioned directly in front of me, hopefully pulling all of the dust from my sanding. Then I would fill in all of the cracks in the wood before I knocked off for the night. I didn’t want the CA fumes damaging my collector filters. Now I’m not as concerned about my dust collector filters as I am for my health. 2 months ago I developed an extremely bad case of flue like symptoms. My primary Dr. wanted to treat it as Silent Acid Reflux. That didn’t work. I was due for a Colonoscopy and that doctor gave me a z pack. It took several weeks for me to get over it, I’m thinking the z pack didn’t cure it as it wasn’t a viral or bacterial issue as it was probably a reaction to CA.That prompted me to shut down the shop for several weeks of deep cleaning and reorganizing my dust and fume collection. I added another 1000 CFM Jet dust filter beside my sanding station, and will go outdoors to apply CA with activator.