Battery Question

[cabinetman]

Flashlights, and some gear like digital cameras, that take AA size or AAA size batteries, can they use either regular, alkaline, or rechargeable batteries if they are the AA or AAA size?

And, is there a difference in using the same size (like AA or AAA) in NIMh, Nicad, or lithium?


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[vaking]

Regular alkaline batteries provide 1.5 v output. Rechargeable batteries usually provide less voltage, 1.2 - 1.25 v. Devices that are designed to work with such voltage will work, devices that were not designed for it - will not. Most digital cameras are designed to work with rechargeable batteries because otherwise you will spend a fortune on alkalines. Flashlights that take standard size batteries are usually designed for 1.5v batteries. Flashlights usually are not sensitive to voltage so on rechargeable batteries they will work but dimm and run for short time. Flashlights designed to be rechargeable usually have sealed battery.
There is a difference between different types of rechargeable batteries. Nimh batteries can keep charge longer than Nicd when not in use (shelf life), etc.

[LCHIEN]

most gear will take any of the primary (non-rechargeable) or secondary (rechargeable) cells.

The primary (carbon-zinc cheapest often labeled "heavy-duty") or alkaline-manganese (most common, usually called just alkaline) are 1.5 volts but have a somewhat steadily declining voltage with use. Usually the exhaustion point will be around 1.0 to 1.2 volts where the battery just won't perform, or in the cases of sophisticated electronics like digital camera, will turn off and refuse to be started. This protects the equipment against unintended misoperation (important when you have a camera with memory devices) and also protects the batteries from compete exhaustion and reversal of the first cells to go (damaging to rechargeable cells).

Rechargeable cells, Nickel-cadmium commonly called Ni-cad, and Ni-MH (like NIckel-metal hydride) generally put out 1.2 volts nominal ( a bit higher to 1.45V after just being charged, but drops quickly to 1.2 volts) generally have a flat output voltage staying at around 1.2V until nearly exhausted and then drop rapidly in voltage where they are mostly cut off at 1.0 volts.

IN all types exhaustion is also accompanied by increasing internal resistance making power delivery fall off very rapidly. Because of the flat curve of Nicads and Ni-MH, many electronics, flashlights, camera flashes etc perform much better through the useful range, whereas allkalines and especially carbon-zincs tend to work worse as they are used up (flashlights get dimmer, flashes take longer to cycle, tools run slower).

So generally the rechargeables are better (and more environmentally friendly because they can be reused over and over), however, alkalines can be used in most equipment in case of emergency.

One important fact is that Alkalines have charge holding times of many years compared with nicads which will lose half its charge in a matter of weeks. NiMH is a bit better at holding charge -maybe months. So keeping a spare set of alkalines in your camera bag is a good backup plan to unexpected battery failure.

[herb fellows]

When i do use alkalines for my camera, I find that after the camera rejects them they still have enough left to power a flashlight for a while, so I repurpose them until they die.

[LCHIEN]

When i do use alkalines for my camera, I find that after the camera rejects them they still have enough left to power a flashlight for a while, so I repurpose them until they die.

That's true, with the flat discharge of rechargables, many electronics devices will cutoff cells around 1.0 volts, but alkalines still deliver useful energy to around 0.9V, which might be 20-30% of their life. I noticed this recently when i put some new alkalines in my digicam on a trip (I tried to pack lightly and brought three sets of charged NiMH but no charger). Seemed they laste less time than a set of the rechargables.

I stick those cells in a box of partially discharged alkalines i keep and put then in quartz clocks and such where they're not too critical. Quartz clocks tend to keep perfect time up until the motor can't hardly move the second hand anymore then its obvious we have battery failure.

[cabinetman]

So, can I deduce that all AAA or AA size batteries could be used interchangeably, as to alkaline, NIMh, Nicad, and Lithium ion? Also, would Lithium ion batteries last longer than the other rechargeables?


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[LCHIEN]

So, can I deduce that all AAA or AA size batteries could be used interchangeably, as to alkaline, NIMh, Nicad, and Lithium ion? Also, would Lithium ion batteries last longer than the other rechargeables?


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The first part answer applies to Alkaline, NiMH, and NiCad but not LI (Lithium-ion), is yes they can be used interchangeably for some degree of functionality. But don't mix them. And Some will work better in some applications than others if the device has been designed with one in particular in mind. The manual will usually tell you which are best. Dumber devices (flashlights,fans, quartz clocks etc) are usually less fussy then complex electronics.

Also note NiCd and NiMH chargers are different. If you try to recharge Alkalines in either they may explode.

But Lithium ion cells have a voltage per cell of 3.6 to 3.7 volts so I'm pretty sure there are no commercial AA or AAA sized LI cells to avoid confusion and product and or charger damage, fires, etc.

Most LI cells are made into square or rectangular packages and specially fit into equipment. I don't observe any effort to standardize LI packs for cameras, phones, etc, they all seem to be proprietary which is a shame. They are often charged in place but they don't have to be.

Part of the problem with LI battery packs is that they have complex rules for discharge and charging and can be dangerous if mistreated. Thus battery packs either have microprocessors built into the pack or have the intelligence built into the device (part of the reason for proprietary packaging. Also the LI is a family of similar chemistries, its not just one chemistry, adding to the confusion.

[cwsmith]

I agree with Loring.

I've got a variety of stuff that I use AA and AAA batteries for, and have interchanged Akaline, NiCad, and NiMh over the years, and on rare occasions Lithium batteries. I haven't used Li-Ion rechargeables, mostly because I'm not aware that they are available in AA or AAA size. (I do have a couple Li-Ion tools though, as well as a couple Ryobi Tek4 products... and like them.)

All the radios that I have will take any type, as long as they fit, and they all work well, with NiMh lasting the longest of the rechargeables.

The only two things that I have had a problem with is the digital thermostat in my house... it won't work with rechargeable anything.

Likewise, I have this neat little digital cooking thermometer; the kind that has a transmitter with a probe that you stick in the meat. The receiver you carry with you and receives the signal from the transmitter. You can program the receiver/monitor for the kind of meat you are cooking and whether you want it rare, medium, or well and it receives the temperature and alarms when it reaches the correct degree for your selection. Really a neat gadget, as you can leave the grill and be in the house doing other things. The receiver will work with any battery type (AA), but the transmitter (AAA) needs the full voltage of Akalines and will not work with either NiCads or NiMh rechargeables at all.

I hope this helps,

CWS

[LCHIEN]

That's true CWS - some devices want the full 1.5 volts of the alkalines.
Also don't use recharegeable in any very low drain equipment except in an emergency. The rechargeables will self-discharge faster than the device will drain them, instead of lasting 1-2 years it might go 2 months. Of course the you could always recharge it....

And NiCd, NiMH do have higher output current capability, so they work better in high current applications, like photo-flashes where a lot of current is pulled after flashing to get ready for the next flash. The rechargeables always recycle faster.

[Chris_B]

For cameras, definitely check-out rechargeable batteries. I also use these for the lights on my commute bike.

Note that the latest NiMH designs lose charge *very* slowly. Typical self-discharge is only 25% loss after 2 years. AFAIK, Sanyo's 'Eneloop' was the first brand with this characteristic, but there are several other alternatives now.

FWIW, although they are more expensive, I find the Energizer AA & AAA lithiums very useful in cases where NiMH is not appropriate:
1) The charge lasts indefinitely (typical shelf life is >10 years)
2) Noticeably lighter
3) Never leak (see #1)
4) Retain full output voltage until very close to complete discharge
5) Excellent cold-weather performance
6) Low internal resistance (works fine with high-discharge use like camera flashes)
7) Extremely high energy density
Basically the only downside is significantly higher cost (~$2 each), but in the right situation they are a bargain...

As a result, I use the lithiums for:
- Low-use devices like remote controls (never leak, last forever)
- Safety devices like emergency LED flashlights (*always* ready)
- Backups for NiMH batteries (light, long-lasting and powerful)

[cabinetman]

My major complaint is with my digital camera. With either the rechargeables, the batteries lose their charge even with the camera off and unused for 5-10 days. I've been using alkaline, and install them to take pictures and then remove them. The same draw happens with alkaline if left in the camera.

I'm thinking that maybe I've got to do some setting with the menu, as there seems to be some ongoing draw even with the camera off.

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[jking]

What type (or brand) of rechargeables are you currently using? Like anything else, there are varying qualities. I can't remember the website, but, someone has done extensive reviews on rechargeable batteries for cameras. I'll see if I can't search it out.

[jziegler]

My major complaint is with my digital camera. With either the rechargeables, the batteries lose their charge even with the camera off and unused for 5-10 days. I've been using alkaline, and install them to take pictures and then remove them. The same draw happens with alkaline if left in the camera.

I'm thinking that maybe I've got to do some setting with the menu, as there seems to be some ongoing draw even with the camera off.

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Try out some Sanyo Eneloop batteries. They are low self-discharge NiMH batteries. They will take many months (up to a year) to lose their charge just sitting there. There are other similar batteries out there, but I can personally vouch for the Eneloops (I have a set) and they are some of the most readily available (I've even seen them at Costco before). Here's a link to a pack of AA at amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/SANYO-eneloop-...0434775&sr=8-2

Also note that Alkaline batteries are really a last choice for a digital camera. A camera draws a high current for short periods of time. Alkaline batteries will heat up more than rechargeables in a case like this, taking away some of their charge (higher internal resistance for anyone that cares).

[Woodshark]

Try out some Sanyo Eneloop batteries. They are low self-discharge NiMH batteries. .

I agree. I'm a professional photographer. We use rechargeable AA's in our on camera flashes. I have used a lot of different brands of rechargeable batteries over the years and the Sanyo Eneloop is by far the best I have seen so far. They hold a charge and seem to last about twice as long as others.

[HAMMERHEAD2010]

Batteries and Voltage

The device does not care what battery you use, only the voltage and mAh matters.
As someone else mentioned, an Alkaline AA cell outputs 1.5 volts. A NiCD or NiMH rechargeable cell outputs 1.2 volts and also lose voltage and current each day when not used. If you put 2 alkaline cells in a flashlight it will have 3 volts after a month of non use, but 2 NiCD or NiMH might only have 2.2 volts after a month of non use. Each type of cell has it advantages and disadvantages.
Most devices are designed for a particular voltage, but will take a 10% - 20% higher voltage and give greater performance. For example, you could run an 18 volt ryobi hedge trimmer using the ryobi NiCD 18 volt battery and get about 20 minutes run time or you could use a Rambo Battery and run it at 22 volts and get 60 minutes of run time and it will have more power because of the higher voltage that a Rambo Battery can run it at. The same is true for most cordless power tools of any brand.