Very dissapointed and tired of this

[master53yoda]

Taking offense period isn't very mature. Why would you give anyone that kind of power over you. Most people that have worked with me know that it is about impossible to offend me, there are 2 reasons for this.

#1. I don't think most people would do it on purpose, and I feel sorry for those that would purposely offend some one, because they must have some real problems.
#2 I would need to highly respect someones opinion to be offended and in that case I would in all likely hood agree with them.

One must choose to be offended, and by doing so you give the offender control and your ability to progress is diminished as all your enrgy is focused on a poor offended me thought pattern.

Not for me, but due to similar problems I have had with some of the members in the forums I am not posting very often because it just isn't worth it.

[sailor55330]

[QUOTE=JSUPreston;470163]


My point is almost everything that can be said can be taken as offensive. It is up to us as adults to try to determine if what was said was meant to be offensive, factual or humorous.

Sailor, I highly advise that if you truly intend to leave the forum, that you do so quietly and peacefully. You will find that if you continue this argument publicly, I dare say the vast majority of the members will side with Mark on this, and any future postings you have may be ignored.



Two very interesting points.

1. To paraphrase, each adult should decide what is offensive, factual, or humorous and that someone must choose to be offended. The first person to "choose" to be offended was not me, but I am being criticized for it and they are not.

2. Based on this post, it sounds as if I would be ignored because I had an opinion and I challenged the normal thought process. By posting that, you have basically spoken for many of the forum here and have in essence, issued a very thinly veiled threat that I should not post in the future as it will be ignored and that the moderator will be sided with regardless. That sentence speaks volumes alone.

Again, I have tried to make logical postings and now these type of statements are allowed with no rulings from any mods? How is that fair?

[sailor55330]

I have other things to attend to. I don't want to fight anymore. Enjoy your threads and moderator-ship and your ideals and your sensitives and whatever else may have been percieved as challenged, threatened, or infringed upon.

[Stytooner]

Okay, Fellas.
I see burn out marks and smoke everywhere. We are all getting nowhere very fast. I suggest we let the slicks cool down and the smoke clear.

I will say for the record that we do not see every post. We do, however see every one that is brought to our attention. In this manner you guys are acting on the Forum's behalf like we do. This is sometimes a necessary evil. We all have day jobs and there is one less mod here lately due to Hank's retirement.
We try not to police the forum directly unless something is blatantly wrong AND we happen to see it. If I had seen the comment, I would likely have altered the post and then sent a PM as to why I did so. Not a lot different to what BW did really.
It is a sad thing when anyone's feelings or sensibilities get damaged due to what others say or do. It is a fact that we all have to deal with and it is never an easy thing to put to bed. As mod's, we deal with this type thing quite a bit. You guys see it when it comes out in the open. We try to prevent that, not to censor or curtail anyone's speech, but in hopes that further harm might not be done by keeping the issue private.

I actually thought the post was a bit humorous or sarcastic, but also was on the political boundary. As I said, I would have edited it. The entire incident could have been dealt with behind the scenes, but every now and then it does a population good to know what is going on. I personally do not wish to see any member leave. We all have some value to others. You never know when one idea, statement or phrase might just save someone a lot of heartache or cash.

There is always a lot of conversation lost on the written word only. The biggest culprit might be miscommunication or interpretation. This is often the case with this type incident.

All that said, I will support BW in whatever he thinks is right, though I do voice a differing opinion from time to time and is why he often asks us what we think about a given situation. I will say too, that about 90% of action taken here is done after communication of the Mod's.

I am willing to step aside at any time if someone else wants the job. Just let Sam know you are dissatisfied with the current moderation and let him decide what to do. I welcome other ideas on how the job can be done any better. That is a challenge for some of you. How can it be done better?

[BobSch]

Why not just lock this thread and move on?

[Richard in Smithville]

Why not just lock this thread and move on?

Good idea....after my say

It seems to me that if you feel slighted by a post, why not pm the original poster, explaining your feelings and reasons why it bothered you. If you get blown off, then report it. It's too easy to click on the report button and make it someone elses worry.

[Stytooner]

I am not in total disagreement with locking the thread, however that would defeat it's purpose. Personally I think it is a bit of over reaction and intolerance that lead us to where we are in this thread.
I personally am against locking threads outright. I feel if someone later might have a solution, then bring it.
I would much rather see the entire thread disappear, however it can't be undone.
Issues about how the forum is run should absolutely be able to be seen in daylight and discussed as long as that discussion doesn't hit the dirt. When it does, even those type discussions may need moderation. That is what we are ultimately here for. Someone gets offended enough about a post, we investigate. We are a small number of mods. We do the best that we can.
If ANYONE has any better way to handle things, post an outline. I do belong to many forums and I swanny, this one is the least policed.

[Rich P]

IMHO, of late the majority of the most recent posts have been in "the coffee pot" (which has fun stuff which I enjoy) but I thought this site was about making stuff. There is still enough good stuff in other forums to keep me checking in but I certainly hope this is not becoming a "LOL" hangout. The fact that this thread has not been locked (find another recent thread with as many posts about real, wood and saw, stuff) is of some concern. Now I will stiffle.

[sweensdv]

IMHO, of late the majority of the most recent posts have been in "the coffee pot" (which has fun stuff which I enjoy) but I thought this site was about making stuff. There is still enough good stuff in other forums to keep me checking in but I certainly hope this is not becoming a "LOL" hangout. The fact that this thread has not been locked (find another recent thread with as many posts about real, wood and saw, stuff) is of some concern. Now I will stiffle.

Amen to that, way to much coffee drinking going on for a woodworking forum but that is MNSHO. I hate it that way too many times I come on this site and am gone in under a minute as there is nothing new posted in any of the forums that deal with woodworking. A guy can only drink so much coffee in a days time.

[Stytooner]

Okay. Point taken. The Coffee Pot has been the place most in need of moderation. It has always been the most frequented topic. Not something new.
These comments are directed at the members though. I would rather keep this thread as a discussion about moderation and how we can do better. Any moderation at all will step on someone's toes.
Some are stopping just short of calling us Dictators. To be a good Dictator, one must have no conscience to speak of. I can assure you that this requirement would make us lousy dictator's. I am certain that it pains us all to take any action at times.
I don't think the Mod's roll is one of leadership either. It is a thankless job that is necessary to permit at least some semblance of a smooth flow of ideas and comments. I do it because Sam asked me to. That is the reason we all do it. That is enough pay for me.
We have pretty much laid out how we operate. Any comments on that or how it can be done better are welcome at this point. I would certainly like to know a better way. I feel though that there isn't going to be an option that all will agree with.

To the OP, I have read over the past threads you mentioned. I saw nothing that but help on the part of the members and mods. I admit I could see your frustration and that may have had something to do with your feelings at the time, but the accusation of us hurting or talking down to you were unfounded. I do apologize both as a member and a mod if that is the way it felt to you. I can assure you that was not my intention.

[BobSch]

BT3Central has always been one of the most civil boards on the Web and the moderators are one of the big reasons. I know it's a thankless job, and no matter what you do, someone's going to get their toes stepped on, however, without mods this board could very easily sink down to the sniping and name-calling you see on so may others. So, for me at least, thanks.

[jrnewhall]

my $.02 (probably what it's worth) - The communication problem seemed to center around the word "offended". Sailor got the idea that someone was offended by his post and that was why it needed to be edited. This made it personal and he responded personally. But, it had nothing to do with anyone being offended. It's just the rules of the forum, no politics or religion. It's as simple as that, nothing personal. If the mods stress that point it might take away the perceived offense by recipient.

[Cochese]

my $.02 (probably what it's worth) - The communication problem seemed to center around the word "offended". Sailor got the idea that someone was offended by his post and that was why it needed to be edited. This made it personal and he responded personally. But, it had nothing to do with anyone being offended. It's just the rules of the forum, no politics or religion. It's as simple as that, nothing personal. If the mods stress that point it might take away the perceived offense by recipient.

I agree.

I also agree with there being way too little work posted, but that's another thread I suppose. Seems like every wood forum spirals down that path.

[MilDoc]

Personally, one reason I really like this board is its inherent civility. I have stepped over the line, had a thread blocked (as it should have been), etc., and never felt personally offended. I saw the mod's point.

I think they do a great job overall, and should be thanked for taking their free time to keep all of us civil and reminding us when we cross the line. I do thank the mods, all of you.

Keep up the good work y'all!

[Hellrazor]

I haven't stopped in here in a long while and look what I find. The same old crap that I decided to wander away over. It is always amazing how some petty thing sets off a huge argument, but a certain person could start problems over and over yet nothing ever came of it.

Sailor, I highly advise that if you truly intend to leave the forum, that you do so quietly and peacefully. You will find that if you continue this argument publicly, I dare say the vast majority of the members will side with Mark on this, and any future postings you have may be ignored.

Nice. Really nice. Preach goody two shoes and then slide this rubbish in. I am not sure what I hate more.. someone trying to polish a turd or someone trying to force their beliefs on others. Smart people form their own opinion and lemmings try to ride the coat tails of those in charge.

Oh well.. I'll stop by in another 6 months or so and see if anything changed. I have my doubts.