Mark, Do you see something we don't

[billwmeyer]

I liked the thread when it started, but I instantly thought politics. I agreed with Bruce until I read Mark's answer. As far as Bruce posting this publicly, to me it was an education as to what Mark's process is. I liked hearing his reasons for his action, and I agree with it. Once a thread starts the wrong way, it will only get worse. Of course, you can't do this on every locked topic, that would be counterproductive.

I love this forum, not only for the woodworking content, but because of how friendly it is. I have been alarmed at some of the dissention that I have seen the last few months, and I think Mark has done a great job at squelching it. I have been on some forums where you couldn't say hello without getting flamed!

Thank you Mark for doing a hard thankless job.

Bill

[sweensdv]

.................................
It would be nice if -- even if a couple posts do stray off course -- the rest of the community could steer it back on. It's been nice when I've seen that happen in the past, and it makes the forum more self-policing.

That's probably how it should work as long as one of the mods doesn't interpret the self policing as a personal attack and start banning people for doing it. I wouldn't have a problem calling someone out for hijacking a thread but that would mean risking being called on the carpet and it's not my job anyways, it's the job of the moderators.

[jking]

The last year or so has seen our community change & grow. I've seen some threads get pretty ugly. I completely understand Mark wanting to "nip things in the bud".

I've stated this before, but, in my experience this forum is very open & laid back from a moderating standpoint. There is generally very little deleting of posts that happens/needs to happen & when it does, we are actually able to discuss it openly. I belong to some websites where if I asked a moderator why a post was deleted, chances are pretty good that I would be banned with no explanation.

[jussi]

My curiosity is sated and I thank those who replied.

I was alarmed at the locking, too, but I didn't see the two deleted posts
either so if Mark deemed it fit to delete them and lock the thread, then so be
it.

Our first child is due in a week and this thread locking got me thinking about
discipline. Thread locking is one thing but are there additional ways to deter
the actions that lead to the thread locking like a "time out" from posting? I'm
not saying we ban anyone from the forum, just give them some time to think
about their actions that got them to that point so it doesn't happen again.

I'm going to go put my fire retardant suit on now.

Paul

On another forum I frequent they hand out penalty flags for breaking the rules. Under someone's name you'll often see 2 yellow flags with "Double Yellow" right above it. After too many flags u get a temporary ban from posting. More penalties = perm ban. Although if its a new member and they are clearly there to troll, then it's an automatic permanent ban.

But then again I think they may use a different software for their forum and it may be too difficult to apply here. If that's the case you could just PM them with a warning.

Most people here try to follow the rules and I think a majority of the infractions are from people not thinking they've crossed the "political line".

These are just merely just suggestions of course since I'm not a Mod and realize this would be much more work for them.

[Bruce Cohen]

Bruce I must see things that you do not. I see the posts that I delete. I see posts that others delete. The thread did not as you will agree start as political. However one of our members changed it into a political discussion at which point I deleted and locked. My message needs to be loud and clear: Avoid politics or threads will become locked and posts will be removed.

I voluntarily do a job most simply will not do. There is no way to please everyone.

Mark,

Now I understand the reason for locking that thread.

I think that all this unpleasantness could have easily been avoided if you mentioned the deletion upon locking the thread.

With you and the other mods being some of the only people seeing the two posts, and having them been deleted, appeared to be a overreaction to a fairly benign thread.

Sometimes we all need some more of an explanation.

Bruce

[Black wallnut]

A careful reading of what I post when I lock a thread would also be helpful,no?

"A political reply and a reply to a political reply is enough for me to delete the political replies and lock thread! "

I simply do not know how to make what I have done more clear. I said that I deleted two replies. Perhaps folks could just take a deep breath and trust that I am not going out of my way to be overbearing. Seldom do I quickly delete and lock. The fact that this thread is still open should be proof positive that I go out of my way to be fair. The jury is still deliberating on this however had some of these posts in this thread been directed at a forum member other than myself several members would be banned forever. If you are not able to post in a respectful manner move to another forum! This is not the Rec! If you simply do not like me or the way I conduct forum business take it off line. I serve at the pleasure of Sam and Adele after all this is their forum, beyond that we are all but guests here.

[chopnhack]

Well said, Mark... we are all guests here and need to act accordingly, we have no rights to the forum but are granted access as long as we abide by the owner's rules. I think that's fair enough

[woodturner]

Perhaps folks could just take a deep breath and trust that I am not going out of my way to be overbearing. Seldom do I quickly delete and lock.

I've started and cancelled several posts throughout this thread, out of respect for Mark and the guideline to not discuss moderation.

I HAVE to comment on this one, though. ANYONE who thinks Mark is "overbearing" must not have spent much time on the 'net. On most boards, a single infraction gets you banned for life, no appeals. Mark has to be the most tolerant and understanding moderator I have encountered in more than 30 years on the 'net.

In any event, I like the guest analogy. We are guests in someone's "home", this board. This is not a democracy, we are in their house and living by their rules. Just as we would respect a host while guests in their home, we should respect the host's rules and guidelines here. I suspect few of us would smoke in a house where the host asked us not to - but many of us do effectively the same kind of thing here.

I'd ask that we all try to read, understand, and respect the rules. We all have those "knee jerk" reactions sometimes, but let's try to let it "sit" a bit before responding and limit inappropriate responses.

Thanks.

wt
just another board "guest"

[Kavoom]

When I saw the title, I figured it would go "bad" sooner rather than later. I bet he did too. I was actually surprised at how reasoned it was for as long as it was (posts still visible). It appears to have been a preemptive attack effectively executed, stopping three G (God Government and Guns) terrorists before they could strike. I believe the moderator should be nominated as Afgan commander.

[crokett]

Ray, if you think being a moderator is because the mods are on a power trip, you could not be more wrong. All of the Mods here were asked to serve, and all had to be cajoled into doing so. I am a moderator here and have been elsewhere. None of the mods I know are there because they wanted the power. Mostly, it is just a big hassle having to defend attacks like this. As far as accountability goes, we are accountable - to the other members of this forum, to each other and to Sam. If you don't like the way BT3Central is moderated, become a moderator, or leave and find a place that is moderated to your liking. Mark is far more patient and forgiving than myself or the rest of the mods.

Please don't hold your breath, Bruce - that outcome is as unlikely as you finding gold in them thar hills! That, for some, seems to be the attraction of the moderating role - an appearance of authority without accountability. For you and me (and many others, no doubt), our past careers demanded accountability once responsibility was awarded or achieved - we live in lesser times now, unfortunately. As an aside, I am aware, as I know you are, that the role is voluntary - I don't need constantly reminding about it as though an excuse for recent action.
Ray

[RayintheUK]

Did I once refer to you, David? Why is any other opinion apart from yours an "attack" and not simply another opinion? It's of no interest or relevance to me where else you've moderated, but it's revealing to now know your take on "accountability."

Thank you for pointing out my options. The first is totally unrealistic, given your definition of your "accountability" to each other (and Sam's current lack of involvement). The second is so childish and petulant, I can hardly credit you said so in writing.

Please don't use any of my criticism to further inflate your status in that way. I'll leave if I choose to, but I quite like some of the other members and believe I've helped quite a few of them over the years - long before this current nonsense cast a shadow over what was once the friendliest place on the Internet.

[Rand]

I vote for Mark... oh wait. Is that political?

[LCHIEN]

time to lock this discussion, too. Not going anywhere but down.

[TB Roye]

I agree, to very good and respected members are now having issues. Time to shut it down, don't need to vote anything.

Tom

[Bruce Cohen]

Hey guys,

Just keep in mind it was a Mod who started this thread going directly into the dumper.

I guess some people aren't capable of practicing what they preach.

Bruce