GPS Rant and Caution

[Marv]

A long rant and a CAUTION (defective product:

I registered my Garmin Nuvi 1200 and downloaded the latest software in mid January just before leaving on a month long trip.

We were driving on the Turnpike thru Oklahoma (our GPS was quiet because there were no decisions to be made) when we came to a location where we had to make a decision on which road to take. We discovered that our GPS had shut off—sudden panic. Fortunately, I was able to pull off the road; turn the GPS back on; wait for it to load the maps; back up a couple hundred feet and take the correct road.

Subsequently we found it would randomly turn off several more times.

The next night I found their website and found out that their FAQ section mentioned that this was a potential problem and that I should download the latest software using Webupdater. I used Webupdater and it indicated that I had the latest software.

I sent an email to Garmin “contact support” address. This email was never answered.

When I reached the first destination of my trip, I called Garmin and talked with "Said". After I explained that I had loaded the latest software and that it did not fix the problem, he told me I could 1) sent the unit in and they would send me a new one about 10 days after they received mine or 2) give them my credit card number and they would “attach” my card for 2X the unit price and send me a new unit; my attachment would be released when they received my unit.

He said 2X ($300) was company policy. I told him no to both. I need a unit now for the continuation of my trip and I was not going to allow attachment of $300 to my card.

I asked to talk with his supervisor. He was not available but I was able to leave a message on his voice mail asking for a return call. I never did hear from him

At the end of my trip, I sent a “nice” letter to their testimonies site and sent a letter to the Garmin President.

After about 2 weeks I received an email from their customer relations with an apology and instructions to again use the updater. They also stated that I could send in the unit and receive a new on 10 days after receipt or they could “attach” my credit card for 1X or $150. ( Said had been wrong when he told me it was $300.)

I told them that they had done nothing to gain my trust and that I was not doing any of their suggestions.

I had already done the webupdater bit.

They are selling a product that can shut down and not work when needed. They are not warning people that this can happen—you have to find it out yourself.

They did not respond to my email.

They did not return my call.

Why should I trust them with my old unit or my credit card number? There is no way that I will ever give them my credit card number for any purpose. I will eat their defective product.

They are still sticking with their requirements.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for your time.

[Alex Franke]

I know you probably feel like you're getting the run-around after forking over a good chunk of cash for what seems like a crappy product, but my suggestion would be to take a step back and reconsider your position. 10 days or a $150 hold on the credit card seems perfectly reasonable to me. I believe they're generally a reputable company, and I also believe that your credit card company (and a slew of other consumers) will protect you and jump to your defense if they try to steal your money. It's better to try that then just eat the $150 and deal with a defective product.

I have a nuvi and haven't the problem you describe. They did send out an email last year recommending a "compulsory" update (I thought that was a rather odd word to use for the update actually), but so far so good, except for the lag in locating satellites from time to time.

Also, PLEASE don't back up on a turnpike or highway. It's very dangerous and I believe it's also a serious no-no if you get caught. (Better safe than sorry, you know.)

EDIT: You might also let them know that Said misrepresented their return policy -- that way they can (hopefully) try to fix that problem too. If you still know the date/time you had that conversation, then include that, too. That kind of information really helps when a company is researching a bad customer service experience.

Edit #2: One other thing you can try: The "10 days after receipt" might be negotiable if you have a customer service pro on the phone. If you explain that you really need to product sooner and 10 days plus shipping is just too long to wait, then ask if you can send it directly to the customer service person and have a replacement sent overnight upon receipt. They may not be able to willing to accommodate this, but it sure doesn't hurt to ask.

[LCHIEN]

i agree with Alex that a credit hold is not unreasonable to protect them. Garmin has been an OK company to me - i've never had problems with the several handhelds i've owned. They are a large and reputable company, and are by and large well known for the quality of their products.

A credit hold is not charging your credit card but it protects them that you won't "forget" to return the unit and/or scam them. They merely put a notice to the credit card company to reserve that much in case they have to charge (so you don't max out the card in the meantime). They do not actually charge your card. And if your return the bad unit then they release the hold. Rental car companies regularly put a hold for thousands of dollars on you card if you waive insurance. It certainly gets your replacement unit to you faster than waiting for the bad one to be returned first.

Anyway it seems unreasonable to not try to get your unit fixed, if they think it might be bad. Compact hi-tech electronics have very complex ball grid solder joints which can be tricky and lead to hard to detect intermittents. I'd certainly give them another chance.

And by the way, its advisable not to put all your eggs in the GPS basket, bring a backup paper map, especially if the GPS is new and unproven. before i ever take one on the road, i try it out around town going to known destinations just to see how well it works and how far it can be trusted.
Still its amazing how many people put a brand new camera or brand new GPS into their bag as they go on a big vacation trip.

Finally, my car GPS (not a Garmin but i suspect operates similarly) indicates the next turn even if it 100's of miles away. It gives me the miles to the turn and the direction of the turn and the name of the road... I keep an eye on the miles to go and the hiway name so i'm never surprised and not knowing which way to turn when i get to an intersection.

Quite frankly all GPS units are fallible. Mine has some map bugs it shuts down and reboots on the same place going either direction, one i know of in Rhode Island and the other in Houston. So I'm 100% sure there's other places where this happens, too.

[crokett]

My wife has a Garmin GPS in her van, never had any problems with it. My in-laws also have a Garmin. No problems with it either. The hold on your card is reasonable. Most technology companies do this. They don't actually charge your card.

As for not knowing where you were without the GPS, did you not have a phone number of where you were going to call them? Weren't there road signs? On road trips I never use the GPS, except to find the occasional gas station. I can't think of any major interstate that doesn't have signs. I'm sorry but if you can't follow the interstate signs without a GPS you probably shouldn't be driving. But then I've never driven the Oklahoma turnpike either.

[phi1l]

You are right, of course, but so was the guy that got banned from Walmart for life.

Being right doesn't always get you what you want.

I have never owned a Garmin product. Personally, I look with suspicion at companies that have great customer service. They only get that good with lots of practice, that means they produce lots of defective products. In this day & age bad customer support is an indication of highly reliable products, like Toyota. They are in so much trouble now, because they have so few problems to deal with. I will consider Garmin products in the future.

You got a rare dud. Buy a paper map, take an exchange as soon as it's convenient for you.

[cabinetman]

My wife has a Garmin and never had a problem. Maybe you could find out if a local brick and mortar store that sells them could be authorized to make a swap on the spot.
.

[cgallery]

Not to pick on you or anything, but what would have been an acceptable proposal from the manufacturer?

They can't really front you a new unit w/o a CC hold, because in today's world, 75% of their customers wouldn't return the old ones in a timely manner (if at all). In fact, 10% would sell the old ones on eBay as "working GREAT."

[Kristofor]

Another vote for it being a "business as usual" process to use a credit card hold to secure an exchange that's sent before the defective product is returned. At work we have to secure (with a PO or CC) repair parts from some companies that we do millions of dollars of business with per year.

It's frustrating no doubt, and losing my track data would annoy me too, but their potential remedies seem reasonable to me.

Garmin is probably my preferred consumer GPS company though I own Garmin, Tom Tom, Magellan, and others. The Pioneer HU in my dash doesn't normally run a (hacked) Garmin interface because you cannot buy an official version (I'd pay for it) and thus I cannot control the radio, but if that did work it would likely be my GPS system of choice

A unit panicking / crashing in use is obviously not a design feature, they don't want it doing that (and causing expensive support calls, exchanges, etc.) any more than you do. If you're still within 30-90 days you may be able to do a like for like exchange with the store you bought it from. Even stores that don't allow GPS returns will usually allow defective exchanges.

[JimD]

I am on my third Garmin. I gave a 350 to my daughter, works fine. I have a 760 working well and I just bought a rebuilt 885t (I want to try voice control) that I updated yesterday and will install in my bimmer soon (wiring takes awhile because it is in the car).

I also tried to contact Garmin for a special request - a special cradle that comes with BMW's rebranded Garmins. I never got a reply. So I do not think their customer service is especially good either. But I wanted a $20 part (being generous) that they would be annoying BMW if they sold me. So I wasn't surprised.

I agree with the others. They can't just send you a new Garmin because they don't know you. They have to either make sure they get paid or swap yours for a new one. I do not believe Garmin lets stores do exchanges but you could ask.

Jim

[Marv]

I appreciate the suggestions I have received:

Why rant?

1) Looking at Garmin website for FAQ’s and doing a search on the internet shows that Garmin is having a problem with some of there product shutting down randomly. If they had indicated that this was a possibility (maybe remote) when I registered the product in January, I would not have been caught by surprise.

2) If they had ever returned my email to their support line, it would have helped.

3) Even though I am somewhat hesitant (I guess I am old) to give my credit card number over the phone, I was about to do it until I asked “Said” how much the attachment would be. He told me that they would attach my credit card for 2X value. He insisted that it was company policy. This made no sense to me: I’m thinking--what kind of company am I dealing with? (It is more the principle than the amount of money.)

4) If Said’s supervisor had returned my call, it would have helped.

5) After writing letters to Garmin, they are still insisting that I reload the software—which I told them I have already done. Maybe if I do it enough times it will finally work—isn’t that a definition of a moron?

The above reasons are making me real hesitant to deal with this company. I have at least these 5 reasons for not trusting them.

After all this crap they have given me, I would think that they would try to make me happy. Even if I did not return the defective unit, how much would they lose--$50? Just because they are a big company I am supposed to trust them?? Look at the 5 items above and convince me that I should trust them.

Answers to other comments:

I did back up a couple of hundred feet on the road, but was very careful and traffic was not heavy. Ideally, I should not have done it.

I did have maps with me but only as a backup. I had used a Tom Tom before and did not have a problem.

I did mention to them that Said had told me the attachment was 2X. (And that his supervisor had not returned my call.) They apologized.

I cannot return it to a Brick and Mortar store because it was a gift from my son and he has since passed away.


Thanks again,

[Ed62]

I cannot return it to a Brick and Mortar store because it was a gift from my son and he has since passed away.

Sorry to hear you lost a son. I've been down that same road.

I also have a Garmin, and have had no problems with it shutting down. It sounds as if you were not getting what I would consider acceptable responses, or lack of any response at all from Garmin. But I do agree with others who said taking a credit card is not out of line.

Ed