And So it begin,s

[phi1l]

This is how we ended up with air bags on all cars at a 10%-20% increase in cost. Drivers were not using their seat belts, so the government decided to mandate air bags, which provide little additional safety over seatbelts.

We will all have the saw stop soon at great expense, just to protect us from ourselves.

[vaking]

My calculator says the following:
Sawstop is a high quality table saw. Let's say that PM2200 is another high quality saw with features comparable to those of sawstop except the safety of sawstop autosensing. The price difference betweem sawstop and PM2200 is about $1000 - that is the cost of sawstop's safety addition. Please note - sawstop is the inventor of this technology. If somebody else like Powermatic were to add this safety to their product - they would have to pay licensing fee for it that sawstop does not have to pay. It means that adding this feature to PM2200 would have increased the cost by more than $1000.
I can understand that a pofessional woodworker who makes his living with the table saw might be willing to spend $3K instead of $2K to make sure he keeps his digits. But I also understand that adding $1000 to the cost of lower end homeowner saw or even contractor saw will completely kill that market. I believe the law that require sawstop safety on all saws if it ever passes will result in death of woodworking as a hobby as well as well as DIY homeowner projects that need table saw. If every table saw suddenly starts to have a price tag of $1500 and up because of this new law people will start making their own home-made table saws out of circular saws as they have been doing it in the past. I do believe that home-made table saws are less safe than table saws we have now and overall effect of this law will actually be negative.

[tommyt654]

I agree with your assesment completely Alex, I would and I am sending letters to my Congressmen in regards to this case and any possible legislation or attempts to make this a law

[herb fellows]

I make no judgement about the merits or lack thereof of this case, or the merits of Mr Gass. I would only address the product. I don't think you can deny that having a sawstop set up on every saw would greatly reduce injuries.
Given the equation made about a comparable saw being $1,000 less, you must remember that he is now the only game in town. If manufacturers did use his technology, voluntarily or not, the price would come down considerably, based on volume alone. I'm guessing by the components in the $200= $300 range.
So while it may knock some people out on affordability, it would make it a lot safer for many more.
Taking affordability out of the equation, I'd rather have it than not.

[germdoc]

Not trying to raise anyone's hackles, but...

Sawstop is clearly a superior technology. Anyone who has checked it out AND who has knowledge of the physical and financial costs of losing a finger ($2-3000 per finger) cannot realistically argue this is not better than what we have. I understand that the local TC has recently gone to all Sawstops, and I foresee this happening in shop and tech schools across the country.

Second, the legal system is what it is--an adversarial system. I have been an expert witness, it has nothing to do with my personal financial interests or even necessarily whether the plaintiff "deserves to win". That's up to a jury. I don't think this is the best way to evaluate new technology, but hey, sooner or later IMO all saws will have to have such technology to be competitive on the market. The cost of the device will invariably go down. The cost of the saw will be somewhat higher, but that's life.

Third, re' "McDonald's coffee" lawsuit--look at Wiki link. The lady suffered 3rd degree burns in her crotch, her atty. offered to settle for $20,000, but McD's wouldn't, therefore they took it to court and lost. The final settlement is still secret but is substantially less than the millions of dollars figure often thrown out. If you have ever treated 3rd degree burns, it's not something you expect from going out to get a coffee or which you would willingly endure to get even half a million dollars.

Having said all this, I currently have a BT3000 which I enjoy and try to avoid cutting my fingers off with, but after I move this summer if I can scrounge together the money I will invest in a saw with Sawstop. I play guitar and like to type on WW forums and cannot afford to lose any fingers.

[os1kne]

I don't think that there's any doubt of the usefulness of SawStop blade stopping technology, and I suspect that just about every woodworker is glad that SawStop saws are available. The only problem I see is the self-serving use of our legal system to promote the cause of his company (which is has been known to happen with other products/services, and if I'm not mistaken it's happened with SawStop at least once before.)

I believe that the markets where SawStop saws are available provide an adequate "level-playing field" to guage their ability to compete with products from other manufacturers. If their products aren't competing to their satisfaction, then maybe they should focus on other issues - or maybe they should get away from building their own brand of table saws and work on developing relationships with other manufacturers to make the SawStop functionality available as an option (like Biesemeyer, etc.) I don't think that their participation in these lawsuits will help with this.

[LCHIEN]

assuming (much more conservatively than Germdoc's numbers ) that the costs of losing a finger are more like $20-30,000, an added cost per saw of $1000 would only be coldly justafiable by a rate of loss of fingers at a rate of more than one per every 20-30 table saw users. I hardly think this is the rate.

We often hear numbers of so many US table saw accidents (40,000 per year?) but we never are told the rate per active woodworker.

For a rate of one per 25 active woodworkers there would have to be only 1,000,000 people using Table saws.
I imagine the number is higher.

[cabinetman]

We often hear numbers of so many US table saw accidents (40,000 per year?) but we never are told the rate per active woodworker.

For a rate of one per 25 active woodworkers there would have to be only 1,000,000 peopel using Table saws.
I imaginne the number is higher.

I would say without any doubt that an individual that had a table saw injury was more than likely actively using a table saw at the time.
.

[jussi]

This is how we ended up with air bags on all cars at a 10%-20% increase in cost. Drivers were not using their seat belts, so the government decided to mandate air bags, which provide little additional safety over seatbelts.

We will all have the saw stop soon at great expense, just to protect us from ourselves.

But weren't seat belts themselves mandated? As I recall (and I could be wrong) there was a bit of opposition by the car manufacturers to install them initially.


I'd be really interested in what type of deal Gass offered the TS companies and whether it was he or the TS companies that failed to compromise.

[tommyt654]

And the onslaught begins, http://tablesawattorney.com/

[phi1l]

But weren't seat belts themselves mandated? As I recall (and I could be wrong) there was a bit of opposition by the car manufacturers to install them initially.


I'd be really interested in what type of deal Gass offered the TS companies and whether it was he or the TS companies that failed to compromise.

ya, seat belts were required, but people sat on them instead of in them, (like table saw owners that remove the blade guard.) So air bags became required, to protect people from their own stupidity.

The big difference is that when Airbags became required, all older cars with out air bags were not declared "defective" like this guy want to do with TSs without SawStop.

His REAL problem is that the patent clock is ticking, & TSs have a very long useful life.

[natausch]

The problem isn't just in mandating an exclusive safety feature, that's capitalism, fine and fair.

The real problem lies in mandating the most advanced safety feature available, since most table saws have several features that work great if used as intended.

How would you feel if your health insurance company that they are not covering your claim because they determined you had not purchased a car with the most advanced safety features? Or how about requiring you to purchase a new car every time a safety feature is improved?

More interesting would be to see photos of the scarring, find out if the blade guard was installed and if he received proper training on using the saw from his employer. No power tool is injury proof, even the vaunted SawStop brand. The safest tool in my shop is probably my box of cotton rags, everything else can injure you in various ways if used without caution.

[Stytooner]

One can easily get hurt before a saw is even out of the crate. Improper handling can loose toes, break bones, crush limbs, pull hernias and yes, even sever digits.

In that case, I think I'd rather have a Ryobi. Oh.... I do. Never mind then.

[cabinetman]

Will we agree that the best safety tool in the shop is the brain?
.

[Ed62]

I'd like to hear Rod's take on this.

Ed