LOML Is On The Warpath

[cabinetman]

Had a pow wow with the salesman and the manager. They contend the car we wanted is the one we wound up with. LOML and I know that isn't true. So, they will try to locate another car in the State that has the options we were interested in. They also gave us the option to "special order" a car, at no additional cost.

IOW, it doesn't matter who was right or wrong, they are attempting to make the switch. Since the big complaint is that there is no heated seats, they are checking into whether the present one can be removed and a heated one installed. That will satisfy my wife. As for the difference in the paint, supposedly we weren't charged for the upgraded "pearlized" white. Wife is satisfied with just the white.

So, we go in tonight for the resolution.
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[Uncle Cracker]

You know they're still lying about it being the same car, and they know you know... Yet they still keep on with the fib. I know you want the car, but I think I'd still walk, and let the owner of the dealership and the manufacturer know why. That's just me of course, but it's the principle involved.

A few years ago, we signed a deal on a car here from a local dealer. When we showed up to take delivery, they told us that that they had discovered a serious, but unspecified, safety issue with it, and they had removed it from inventory. Thank God we weren't killed, they said. Turns out they had written not just one, but three contracts on the same car, and delivered it to the customer who was financing through their dealership (where there is a kickback involved). I found the owner of the dealership on his yacht in West Palm, and threatened to sue for fraud, and refer to the State's Attorney. Heads rolled; both the sales manager and the finance manager were fired, and we were offered all kinds of alternative deals to keep us quiet. Got my lawyer to write a letter, and got a cash settlement instead.

[os1kne]

I think that I'd walk too - on principle. If you're going to let them swap the seats, make sure that they make it happen fast. Don't drive the vehicle - if possible, get your trade back to drive until they make it right. If it's not made right quickly - void the sale.

A few years ago, my wife and I bought her a car that was 2 years old, that had a factory sunroof. The first time it rained, 2 days after the sale, she got soaked. The dealer said that she didn't have it closed properly, so we got some instruction on proper use and they kept it for a day to check it out and ensure that it functioned properly. The next day, same problem (but I was driving). We were furious and wanted to void the sale, however we'd driven it about 5 miles over the 50 mile limit to do so, which was easy to do since the dealer was 15 miles from home. We ended up coming to an agreement where we got a good deal on another vehicle and full credit for the purchase price of the lemon - but I had to raise a lot of **** to make that happen. I didn't trust car dealers/salespeople before, but I really distrust them now.

[crokett]

Here you have at least 3 days to return the car if you don't like it. Personally I would return it and walk away. Let the area Ford rep know what happened and go to another dealer. Ask them to take you out on the lot and show you the car you originally looked at. How long ago did you look at it before you bought? If it was a few days, they probably sold it and tried to pull one over on you.

[justaguy]

+1 on the walk away.

And please don't let them .. "Since the big complaint is that there is no heated seats, they are checking into whether the present one can be removed and a heated one installed. "

They can't easily or at all simply swap the seats.. what about the switches and wiring, etc. What they will likely try to do is add in aftermarket heaters. Aftermarket are not covered by the factory warranty and if installed incorrectly can keep the seat sensors for the air bag deployment force circuit from working correctly.

[woodturner]

Here you have at least 3 days to return the car if you don't like it.

Got curious, decided to do a little digging to see how widespread such laws are.

Lawyers.com suggests that it's the dealer's return policy that governs.
http://product-liability.lawyers.com...chase-FAQ.html

Other sites claim that there is no law anywhere in the US
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_d..._to_the_dealer

The FTC site say "The right to return the car in a few days for a refund exists only if the dealer grants this privilege to buyers."
http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/c...ar/usedcar.htm

However, the California state site says that buyers can purchase this option
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures...cts/ffvr35.htm

I did find this site with Florida consumer protection laws, but it doesn't seem to address this question.
http://www.weblocator.com/attorney/fl/law/conspro.html

Thus it appears to me that outside of California, the buyer had return rights only if the dealer's return policy specifies that.

[woodturner]

They can't easily or at all simply swap the seats.. what about the switches and wiring, etc.

Often the connectors and wiring harness for many or all options are installed. It's often more cost effective to build one harness and install it in all cars than to build different harnesses for different options. Just depends on the brand and model.

So it may be impractical to install a heated seat "after the fact", or it may not be a big deal.

[justaguy]

So it may be impractical to install a heated seat "after the fact", or it may not be a big deal.

I agree that it may or may not be a big deal depending on the car.

However, the factory heated seats are not available as a dealer installed option and the big database back at Ford HQ nows exactly what options were installed on which cars by VIN number. The factory options come from the build sheet and the dealer installed options are entered when the dealer registers the sale. That is how they know if dealer installed options get the one years parts warranty or are added to the new car warranty when purchased as part of the sale and installed by the dealer.

[crokett]

Thus it appears to me that outside of California, the buyer had return rights only if the dealer's return policy specifies that.

Looks like you are right. It might also not be the car itself but the loan you take out. I know with the van we had 3 days.

[BobSch]

So it may be impractical to install a heated seat "after the fact", or it may not be a big deal.

Call another dealer and ask if it's possible to retrofit heated seats in that model. See what they say.

[leehljp]

Wired products not programmed into the computer sensor from the factory can cause all kinds of problems.

It may not be related but my MIL bought a used car from that had an "after-sale but dealer added on option" a couple of years ago. She had constant notification that something was wrong. Tire pressure light came on constantly; she took the car back, they fixed that but a few days later, door locks caused problems; fixed that programming, then the key lock system went haywire, fixed that programming, then the tire problem started again. ALL programming related. And they wanted to charge her a few hundred dollars for each time. She squawked enough to get it done for free. Finally traded swapped it for another car.

[rcp612]

Walk away,,,,,,fast.
Someday down the road the VIN is not going to match the vehicle and no one will know why and possibly create more trouble than this dealership is worth.
Just my honest opinion.

[woodturner]

Wired products not programmed into the computer sensor from the factory can cause all kinds of problems.

Definitely agree.

That's something to watch for when buying used cars, too. Chrysler mid size cars - Cirrus, Sebring, etc. - have an optional security system that disables the car if stolen. The ECU's are programmed differently, so if a shop puts an ECU for a car with a security system in a car that does not have those sensors, it tends to work for a while, then one day just shuts down and cannot be restarted.

Although I am the one who pointed out that it MAY be possible to add a manufacturer option "after the fact", given the complexity and issues I think I would be hesitant to accept such a car.

[cabinetman]

We got a few questions answered last night. We, in a contractual way had no leg to stand on. When we first saw the car and drove it, some of the options were pointed out, like the rear view camera, and we discussed the heated seats, but we can't remember the salesman saying that car had them. My wife did say she wanted heated seats.

We may have been confused with the paint, as there was one other car parked nearby that was sold that day and was in the process of the new owners picking it up. That car may have had the upgraded paint. So, the only car that we showed interest in and drove was that first car.

We both could have sworn that the window sticker showed heated seats and upgraded paint. We had nothing in writing about the car, and left no deposit to hold that first car. When we picked up the new car, we didn't discover that there was no heated seats. Maybe it didn't have them.

The story about the options are in the option packages. When they say you can order the car you want with the options you want means "option packages". What is in one "package" may not be in another. According to Ford, heated seats, and rear view camera are in different packages.

Could we just have the dealership order a heated driver's seat and install it? They declined that idea because of the option packages in the VIN code specifies what options are included. There was also a safety issue of removing a seat, and replacing it at the dealer, and not at the factory. All the wiring is there, and a space for a switch is present in the dash.

So, as a courtesy, they gave her (free) one of the Homedics seat pads that can be used with 110V or 12V, that heats, cools, and massages. Although it seems like there may have been a big confusion, we still think the confusion wasn't on our part. We did get a considerable discount. LOML absolutely loves the car, and didn't want to wait for one to be ordered.

This was one of those SWMBO events.
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[RayintheUK]

LOML absolutely loves the car.

There's the important bit, all in one phrase!

Ray