How slick can a wax be?

[phi1l]

[I]Not only do some waxes act like silicone, but have it as an ingredient. Others may have similar ingredients such as PTFE (Teflon).
.

Ahhh.. Silicone....

Silicone contamination is is a well know problem, primarily because it is not soluble in the usual carbon based solvents.

But Teflons on the other hand are carbon based & Teflon sprays use the usual carbon based solvents. So those should be cleanable using normal methods.

The problem is that the liquid silicone droplets land on the wood & get absorbed preventing the finish from absorbing evenly. And then, since the silicone is not soluble in the normal solvents there is no way to remediate the condition.

But for this to happen, the contaminant has to be in liquid form. usually an aerosol. Once wax is applied, it becomes a solid. It may rub off onto the surface or a work piece, or dust with wax may land on the work, but these should be easily removed during normal the prep for applying a finish, I would think.

You inferred that you were sharing a workspace at the time. Is it possible that your roomie was using a silicone spray lubricant?

[Mr__Bill]

and now back to the slippery wax issue.

I have found wax to be the slickest when it's on heavy and it seems that the wax balls up and acts like little ball bearings. This is how I imagine it, what actually happens is beyond me. If I wax wood on wood drawer slides, heavy hard paraffin wax on the parts seems to work best for me.

I knew a man who's job included waxing the gym floor prior to basket ball games. Yup waxed. He claimed a properly waxed and buffed floor was not slippery and was safer to play on than bare "gym floor poly". The gym floor poly he said would cause falls and risk of injury to the players. He was also able to get the black marks off of the floor by buffing and re-waxing.

This all leads me to believe that wax, while smooth and protecting is not necessary the best thing to use for making things slick. Now don't get me wrong, I use it all the time because it's better than nothing and it's easy to use. (In light of C-man's comments on contamination I may well rethink that) I also use a product called CorrosionX it drys to a smooth slick surface that doesn't rust. Living in Temperate Rain Forest area rust is a real issue (as are other things) and CorrosionX has worked well for me to keep the hand tools from rusting.

From my point of view no matter what you do you come up against The Law of Unintended Consequences. Do nothing and the cast iron sheds some rust to the wood surface, wax and it's wax on the wood etc. I think it is going to be a balance between what you use to protect and what finish is used. For example if you use bees wax on the tools and bees wax in the finish it's compatible.

oops, phone's ringing, it's back to work

Bill
rain, 27 days in January but only 11.6"

[cgallery]

I dated a flight attendant that was a poster child for silicone.

Never prevented me from finishing.

[jking]

I dated a flight attendant that was a poster child for silicone.

Never prevented me from finishing.

That definitely doesn't fit the QFT = quality family time mentioned above.

[phi1l]

and now back to the slippery wax issue.

I have found wax to be the slickest when it's on heavy and it seems that the wax balls up and acts like little ball bearings. This is how I imagine it, what actually happens is beyond me. If I wax wood on wood drawer slides, heavy hard paraffin wax on the parts seems to work best for me.

I knew a man who's job included waxing the gym floor prior to basket ball games. Yup waxed. He claimed a properly waxed and buffed floor was not slippery and was safer to play on than bare "gym floor poly". The gym floor poly he said would cause falls and risk of injury to the players. He was also able to get the black marks off of the floor by buffing and re-waxing.

This all leads me to believe that wax, while smooth and protecting is not necessary the best thing to use for making things slick. Now don't get me wrong, I use it all the time because it's better than nothing and it's easy to use. (In light of C-man's comments on contamination I may well rethink that) I also use a product called CorrosionX it drys to a smooth slick surface that doesn't rust. Living in Temperate Rain Forest area rust is a real issue (as are other things) and CorrosionX has worked well for me to keep the hand tools from rusting.

From my point of view no matter what you do you come up against The Law of Unintended Consequences. Do nothing and the cast iron sheds some rust to the wood surface, wax and it's wax on the wood etc. I think it is going to be a balance between what you use to protect and what finish is used. For example if you use bees wax on the tools and bees wax in the finish it's compatible.

oops, phone's ringing, it's back to work

Bill
rain, 27 days in January but only 11.6"

Wax is funny stuff.

Anyone who has been on cross country skis knows that you have to put on the correct hardness of wax on the skis to optimize the difference between the static & dynamic friction, depending on the temperature of the snow.

Wax is slippery, because the wax molecules are non-polar, basically that means that there is not much for water, dirt, wood or what ever. to grab onto on the molecular level.

Here's how I think about it:

On the microscopic level, you can thing of the IC as vast area of mountains & valley. When you put on wax, it covers the peaks & valleys. When you wipe it off you remove the wax down to peaks. Teh quicker you wipe it off, the more of the peaks are exposed & there of the more resistance you will have as the wood scraped across those peaks. The longer you let it dry & the harder it is when you wipe it off, so the fewer peaks will be exposed during polishing, but getting it to a nice shine will take a lot more work.

[Rich P]

IMHO, ditch the wax and get some self adhesive UHMW strips for the table. They are pretty slick and won't need constant renewal.

[billwmeyer]

I dated a flight attendant that was a poster child for silicone.

Never prevented me from finishing.

I needed a new keyboard and to clean my monitor anyway!

ROFL!

Bill

[cgallery]

OK, back to the topic of how slick wax is.............

I've known women that wax their upper lip. I don't think that is so slick.

Where the heck is UC? He's better at this than I am.

[radhak]

I've known women that wax their upper lip. I don't think that is so slick.

The very way women use wax proves to me they are a braver species than mine. Going toe-to-toe with a garden lizard is nothing compared to procedures that shrivel up parts of me at the very mention !

Rich has a great suggestion : the nylo strips from rockler are amazing, particularly for situations where you'd have the same, repetitive movement. I want to use it for all my jigs, but it is a bit expensive; still looking for cheaper/bulk alternatives.

[Chris_B]

Rich has a great suggestion : the nylo strips from rockler are amazing, particularly for situations where you'd have the same, repetitive movement. I want to use it for all my jigs, but it is a bit expensive; still looking for cheaper/bulk alternatives.

Check-out the "Slick Tape" at MLCS. 3" wide x 36" for $9. This is 1/32" UHMW with self-adhesive, and works great. This may be the same stuff as at Rockler with a different name. See: Link



This is about the same price as the Rockler nylo strips in 3" width. If you find something like this for less cost, please let me know! I'll buy a bunch more!

[conwaygolfer]

I don't use wax for anything in the shop. It can have an affect on finishing. Those that use it may say that they have used it for years on end and experience no problems. When I did use it and experienced problems, the contamination can be close to impossible to eradicate.

If you want to try a product as a last resort, try Top Cote. It's the best replacement for wax. It can be used on any surface, and leaves no residue. IMO, it's slicker than JPW or Renaissance Wax.

If you have enough bed to accommodate a power feeder, that would take care of the intermediary hesitation. You can get additional bases to mount on other equipment which makes transferring the feeder very easy.
.

I use top cote also. Recently I shot some on the garage floor (concrete) by mistake. I immediately wiped it up. About 20 minutes later I stepped on the spot and almost fell on my butt when my foot went out from under me. It is extra slippery.

Conwaygolfer

[LCHIEN]

Check-out the "Slick Tape" at MLCS. 3" wide x 36" for $9. This is 1/32" UHMW with self-adhesive, and works great. This may be the same stuff as at Rockler with a different name. See: Link



This is about the same price as the Rockler nylo strips in 3" width. If you find something like this for less cost, please let me know! I'll buy a bunch more!

if the tape is so slick how does the adhesive stick to the tape????

[gsmittle]

if the tape is so slick how does the adhesive stick to the tape????

I have no idea. I do have Slick Tape on a table saw fence jig and I can verify that the tape sticks very well and the non-sticky side is quite slick.

As for the wax, for preventing rust it sounds like pretty much any wax/Top Cote/Boeshield etc. will work fine. I use Minwax non-silicone floor wax for my CI, and I'm satisfied with both the protection and slipperiness. I got 12 cans for free from a school custodian when they refloored the gym with some sort of resilient flooring that took a different wax.

The slippery issue reminds me of the endless discussions that used to go on and on in Modern Photography about which lens was the sharpest. IMO, once the lens gets the line pairs down below the resolving power of the unaided human eye or film, any extra sharpness is just bragging rights and marketing. Probably the same thing for most waxes.

Cgallery, I have to ask: did the silicone flight attendant ever give you the fish eye?

g.