How To Lock Your Car

[fbrend123]

What are the odds of parking beside a vehicle with the same code as yours?

Talk about odds: Back in the '50s, I knew a guy who traded his '53 Olds in for a '55. He once grabbed a set of leftover keys from his '53, and they worked on the '55. I guess there are only so many tumbler combos, and you're bound to recycle sometime. But he same guy????

[sscherin]

Talk about odds: Back in the '50s, I knew a guy who traded his '53 Olds in for a '55. He once grabbed a set of leftover keys from his '53, and they worked on the '55. I guess there are only so many tumbler combos, and you're bound to recycle sometime. But he same guy????

That's not unheard of.. The 80's and back car keys only had 5 or 6 tumblers and 4-5 positions for them.. Odds are 1 in 30 that your key would fit a car from the same manufacturer.

The counter guy at the Chevy dealer in Federal Way, Wa could just look at a old GM key and tell you the code for it..

[woodturner]

Examining the sequence of previously generated keys cannot be used to predict the next ones, unless you know the exact PRBS algorithm used.

Even that is not enough - the correct start sequence must be selected as well.

That's what is happening when you "initialize" or "train" your garage door opener remote, for example. The transmitter is telling the receiver where to start. Without that knowledge, any other remote running exactly the same algorithm cannot open the garage door.

[Richard in Smithville]

Interesting time to find this post. Just yesterday one of my neighbours came home with his newly installed remote car starter. The only problem is that every time he started his car, the woman the other side of me would have her car alarm go off.

[LCHIEN]

That's not unheard of.. The 80's and back car keys only had 5 or 6 tumblers and 4-5 positions for them.. Odds are 1 in 30 that your key would fit a car from the same manufacturer.

The counter guy at the Chevy dealer in Federal Way, Wa could just look at a old GM key and tell you the code for it..

yeah, the GM dealer used to have a big ring of about that many keys, they could open your car after trying a few of them.

[OpaDC]

Interesting time to find this post. Just yesterday one of my neighbours came home with his newly installed remote car starter. The only problem is that every time he started his car, the woman the other side of me would have her car alarm go off.

As long as they don't change my TV channels we're okay.

[cwithboat]

All this demonstrates the virtue of owning a 2003 Toyota Tacoma Pickup (2WD). To lock the car doors you hold your key ring in your left hand and with your right hand push down the lock and shut the door. In addition, as there is no electric window operation, when the truck rolls off the ferry into Puget Sound the window is easily lowered manually and I can swim out. Of course the water is less than 50 degrees F and I will quickly succumb to hypothermia.
I own this truck because I had to forego the 928 I was all set to buy when my boss called me into his office and told me I was going to retire. Sensible . but ......
I will succumb to something else before this truck expires.

[crokett]

Just a bunch of alarmist BS.

Yes. A lot if these kinds of things are alarmist. It is easier to just do a smash and grab or simply steal your keys than it is to clone a key fob.

[woodturner]

I don't know if it's possible, but in this Snopes link they say it could happen.
http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/lockcode.asp
.

That's the same link I posted, where they say it couldn't happen and that there is no evidence it has ever happened.

[woodturner]

Just yesterday one of my neighbours came home with his newly installed remote car starter. The only problem is that every time he started his car, the woman the other side of me would have her car alarm go off.

The aftermarket starters and alarms often do not use the same level of security. When you are buying starters, alarms, garage door openers, or other products that use a remote, look for words like "rolling codes" , "codebuster" , etc. to find the more secure products that are using a pseudorandom code sequence that changes each time the remote is used.

[cabinetman]

That's the same link I posted, where they say it couldn't happen and that there is no evidence it has ever happened.

The link you originally posted did not work. I see that today (@ 7:58 AM) you edited the post with the correct link. There may be many cars today still using older technology that may be subject to "code grabbers".

From the Snopes link:

Origins: Automobile remote keyless entry systems (RKE) were introduced in the 1980s. They've proved to be a big hit, making it easier for the grocery-laden to unlock their cars and sparing many of the terminally forgetful from finding they've left their keys in the ignitions of their now-locked cars or their purses on the seats of same.

The earliest RKE systems were quite vulnerable to the sort of attack described in the warning e-mails quoted above. Their RF transmitters (usually built into key fobs) sent unique identifying codes that could be picked off by 'code grabbers,' devices that recorded the codes sent out when drivers pushed buttons on their remote key fobs to lock or unlock their cars.

As for whether Snopes said it couldn't happen:

It is theoretically possible for a very determined thief armed with the right technology and the ability to manipulate it correctly to snatch a keycode from the air and use it to enter a vehicle.

Because there was no statement that it ever happened doesn't mean it never happened. That means to me that they didn't have evidence that it ever happened.
.

[crokett]

Because there was no statement that it ever happened doesn't mean it never happened. That means to me that they didn't have evidence that it ever happened.
.

Taking the reverse, is there any evidence that it HAS happened, beyond some anecdotal story in an email? A determined thief could do this if he/she had the right equipment. However, most thieves are not that determined, nor are they all that well-educated or financed. My guess is a thief that is sophisicated enough to do this probably can also drive the car away.

[cabinetman]

Taking the reverse, is there any evidence that it HAS happened, beyond some anecdotal story in an email? A determined thief could do this if he/she had the right equipment. However, most thieves are not that determined, nor are they all that well-educated or financed. My guess is a thief that is sophisicated enough to do this probably can also drive the car away.

That could be possibly true providing the following:

The thief actually gained entry.
The car started.
The thief knew how to drive.
The car was mechanically able to be driven.
The car was not blocked in preventing a getaway.

.

[woodturner]

is there any evidence that it HAS happened, beyond some anecdotal story in an email?

According to snopes, no:
"None of the police agencies we spoke with had ever heard of an instance of an automobile break-in theft being accomplished through the method described above."

[woodturner]

The link you originally posted did not work. I see that today (@ 7:58 AM) you edited the post with the correct link.

I actually added the missing "s" to the link shortly after I posted it originally, when I checked my post and found the link didn't work. What I don't really understand is why Snopes won't allow their links to be copied and pasted - that would ensure the links are correctly conveyed.

FWIW, the edit this morning was to fix a typo in the text. You have probably noticed I'm pretty fussy about my writing and typos really annoy me :-)

It is theoretically possible for a very determined thief armed with the right technology and the ability to manipulate it correctly to snatch a keycode from the air and use it to enter a vehicle.

Yes - "theoretically" possible, practically impossible. Further in that paragraph, they explain why it can't be done:
"the thief would have to spend hours (if not days) crunching data and replicating a device"