IL, WI, Where to get SYP: (Southern Yellow Pine)

[pelligrini]

Then he said he had some "hemfir" in 2x10x8' for $6.56 and 2x12x8' for $7.84 -- fairly nominal, I thought. (Grumble -- now I need to go find out what "hemfir" actually is.)

From the WWPA: http://www2.wwpa.org/SPECIESPRODUCTS...9/Default.aspx
"Hem-Fir is a species combination of Western Hemlock (Tsuga heterophylla) and five of the True Firs: California Red Fir (Abies magnifica), Grand Fir (Abies grandis), Noble Fir (Abies procera), Pacific Silver Fir (Abies amabilis), and White Fir (Abies concolor). While Western Hemlock and the True Firs are sometimes marketed separately in products graded for appearance, these species share similar design values making products graded for structural applications interchangeable."

It's on the softer side of the Janka scale, but it ought to be OK for a bench. If I were using it I would do the edges of the bench in a hardwood, like hard maple.

I did mine out of all SYP consisting of ripped 2x12s from HD. The Lowes here doesn't carry much SYP. Theirs is mostly Fir. I already sorted through all the shorter 2x12s my HD had and then I found Lowes didn't have any. Sorting through the 16 foot long 2x12s was a lot of fun. I still wanted to do some maple edges, but I didn't have the funds.

[tkarlmann]

Found some hem-fir but no SYP

From the WWPA: http://www2.wwpa.org/SPECIESPRODUCTS...9/Default.aspx
"Hem-Fir is a species combination of Western Hemlock (Tsuga heterophylla) and five of the True Firs: California Red Fir (Abies magnifica), Grand Fir (Abies grandis), Noble Fir (Abies procera), Pacific Silver Fir (Abies amabilis), and White Fir (Abies concolor). While Western Hemlock and the True Firs are sometimes marketed separately in products graded for appearance, these species share similar design values making products graded for structural applications interchangeable."

It's on the softer side of the Janka scale, but it ought to be OK for a bench. If I were using it I would do the edges of the bench in a hardwood, like hard maple.

I did mine out of all SYP consisting of ripped 2x12s from HD. The Lowes here doesn't carry much SYP. Theirs is mostly Fir. I already sorted through all the shorter 2x12s my HD had and then I found Lowes didn't have any. Sorting through the 16 foot long 2x12s was a lot of fun. I still wanted to do some maple edges, but I didn't have the funds.

So, is hemfir softer than the white pine (I think) that is all over the place up here as construction lumber? I found & dl'd a whole series of files on woods. Seems like SYP is the best, even though doug-fir is the most widely used.

We cannot even get dougfir up here! I talked to two lumber yards today and they say they have doug-fir, but that it's green wood. Then the guy adds that this green wood is used all over in conctruction! I thought wood had to be dried first! (?) Anyone have thoughts here? Would any of you use green dougfir for a workbench? I cannot afford to wait a year for it to dry.

Gosh this whole deal has caused me to do too much research. OK, this is stuff I should know, however I'm still dissappointed that we in Chicago cannot get syp! I'm going to have to talk to my guy at Menards and see if I can't get some SYP up here.

[pelligrini]

Would any of you use green dougfir for a workbench? I cannot afford to wait a year for it to dry.

Nope, you don't want to use green wood. The SYP I used was kiln dried, but it still had a fairly high water content. I was impatient and didn't wait for it to dry. I ended up with some movement.

[crokett]

Schwarz says you can use Douglas Fir. He provides a chart for e-value (strength of wood over a span). SYP has an e value of 1.93 Doug fir is 1.95. For reference, maple is 1.83. Hemlock is 1.20 and white pine is 1.24

Schawrz's comments on wet wood are to sticker it and wait for it to dry. If you can get doug fir I would. What I would do is go cull the driest pieces you can find, then wait for them to dry and make do with another bench until then.

[wardprobst]

(Was going to modify & build John White's New-Fangled Workbench ---> Screws into end grain on the stretcher? John, really!)

I built a NFWB and used Doug Fir with screws into the stretcher. Several years later, still tight from initial install.
I got news for you- if you could get SYP, it'd be green and need to be rough sized and dried for a while before you use it on a bench.
That's just a fact of life in SYP country,
DP

[tkarlmann]

Thanks, guys a Plan?

I think I might get the dougfir and let it dry in my shop. In the meantime, I was thinking I could make one from regular (northern white?) pine sold everywhere here, and just add something like hardboard, plywood, etc to the top. Also, refining my design in the process. Do you anticipate any problems doing that?

[iceman61]

We have SYP out the wazoo here. What I need, that we don't have, is some hardwood maple.

[LarryG]

As has been noted, availability of SYP varies by region. There is a trade association that provides a dealer locator.

[SARGE..g-47]

I think I might get the dougfir and let it dry in my shop. In the meantime, I was thinking I could make one from regular (northern white?) pine sold everywhere here, and just add something like hardboard, plywood, etc to the top. Also, refining my design in the process. Do you anticipate any problems doing that?

No... and I would personally think you might never have to upgrade it. The NWP is softer than SYP but.. if you are going to cap it what difference does it make? I don't know a lot about NWP but.. if the wood is stable once kiln dried I would even consider not capping it.

I have built 24 work-benchs over 38 years and getting ready to do one for an acquaintance that just retired from Delta Air Lines to refurbish my wood rack. Unless you are a pure Neader using exclusively hand planes to flatten stock.. the importance of a flat top is not necessarily that important IMO. I personally think building an extremely sturdy base that will resist rack is more important!

Even though I use Doug fir for a base.. I would not hesitate to build a base from SYP.. poplar.. NWP.. soft maple.. or any other soft-wood as once laminated the through tenons and bridle joints I use are going to make it rock solid. That is the key to a good work-bench and not so much emphasis on the top as "any" wood is going to move eventually and must be flattened.

So... there is an advantage to using SYP for me.... I don't baby tops and scar one up badly in a year with chopping on DT's.. chiseling.. etc. I can build a new SYP top if I get tired of looking at all the battle scars in two days and for under $30. But.. the same could be said for capping a top with ply as unless you glue it down it can be replaced with a new piece and an hour's work or less.

So.. my suggestion is to do what WW'er's have done for a long time... use what is local as it will work for you if you keep in mind it is what it is on the bottom line.... simply a work-bench made to work for you and not juried piece of furniture for a galley...

Good luck...

[tkarlmann]

As has been noted, availability of SYP varies by region. There is a trade association that provides a dealer locator.

SYP exists in IL:

Caution: Some of these may be wholesalers, so they might tolerate WWers. I spoke with one supplier and they want $12.28 for a 8' 2x10 -- and I cannot do much picking either. If I wanted to buy 80 of these, then my price goes to $6.14ea.

TX, FL and TN guys: How do these prices compare with your locations?

The guy said that the material they have has knots, and that typically, the knots are larger than NWP, and the boards may have more twist than NWP, but the wood is harder than NWP.

[tkarlmann]

[QUOTE=SARGE..g-47;435809]So.. my suggestion is to ... use what is local as it will work for you if you keep in mind it is what it is on the bottom line.... simply a work-bench made to work for you.
QUOTE]

I think this will be my approach.

[LarryG]

TX, FL and TN guys: How do these prices compare with your locations?

That would appear to be their largest caliber gun they're sticking in your face. Just checked local prices on the Lowe's web site:

2 x 10 x 8' = $6.42
2 x 10 x 10' = 8.54
2 x 10 x 12' = 9.47
2 x 12 x 12' = 12.69

Home Depot will be within pennies of those prices. Add 8.5% sales tax for the true out-the-door cost but, even so, those are Qty: 1 prices. And I get to cherry-pick my own.

[natausch]

Well, we can all hope that the voicemail I left for this wood lottery earlier today was the first and I get the stack... err houseful?!?!?

Heck, I'd parcel out a few hundred BF of maple just to appease the Craigslist gods.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/mat/1449394456.html

That or the local guy sitting on a mountain of rough maple, walnut and cherry at $1.50 a bf gets time to pull some of it out of his barn loft in the next decade. Then again, I'd be a fool to do anything but ebay 20 year old air dried 6/4 walnut at 2'x18' per slab.

[tkarlmann]

Apparently, MY SYP for IL is priced too high!

That would appear to be their largest caliber gun they're sticking in your face. Just checked local prices on the Lowe's web site:

2 x 10 x 8' = $6.42
2 x 10 x 10' = 8.54
2 x 10 x 12' = 9.47
2 x 12 x 12' = 12.69

Home Depot will be within pennies of those prices. Add 8.5% sales tax for the true out-the-door cost but, even so, those are Qty: 1 prices. And I get to cherry-pick my own.

Does anyone know how far I need to drive to get to /somewhere/ that has SYP -- like a Lowe's of HD -- where I can pick my own?

[tkarlmann]

Well, we can all hope that the voicemail I left for this wood lottery earlier today was the first and I get the stack... err houseful?!?!?

Heck, I'd parcel out a few hundred BF of maple just to appease the Craigslist gods.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/mat/1449394456.html

That or the local guy sitting on a mountain of rough maple, walnut and cherry at $1.50 a bf gets time to pull some of it out of his barn loft in the next decade. Then again, I'd be a fool to do anything but ebay 20 year old air dried 6/4 walnut at 2'x18' per slab.

Can you translate that into something we can understand?