Shop idea

[JSUPreston]

My wife and I have decided that we are probably going to buy the house we are renting from her parents. As some of you may remember, I have a 20x20 block shop with a slope roof. It has an 8"x8" column in the center to support all the rafters, and gets standing water anytime we have any real rain fall.

I am seriously considering building a pole barn next to the existing shop. I am thinking 24x32, with the main workship being 24x24, and a separate 8x24 room for riding mower, weed eater, etc. Main shop would have a single 8' door, and the storage area a single 6' door. I am thinking I may build sliding doors to help keep the cost down. Other than a knockout for my AC (if I install it...may use a lot of ceiling fans), I am thinking no other windows or doors for security purposes. I think I will go with wood paneling on the sides and a tin roof with plywood underlayment, since I may have to get up on it later (trees, etc.) Looking at maybe a 3/12 pitch if I am reading the rafter plan correctly. I may go back later and put up vinyl siding to match the house, but as long as I get this thing painted the right colors, I don't think that would be an issue.

I'm thinking a 4" slab may do the job for me, since I'm in central AL. I'm looking at possibly doing everything but the slab myself. Been doing a lot of homework the past few days on pole barns and how to build my own rafters, etc. The goal of the slab will be to get the shop floor at least 2" above the ground outside. I have thought about a wooden floor, which does have some appeal, but I think the cost of a slab vs. raised wooden floor would be about the same. I will probably go ahead and have the slab also cover the storage area.

Do any of you guys have a pole barn for your shop? If so, any advice on this? Anything that I am looking at that you would do differently? I may not start of this for a while yet, but want to get my thoughts together and do this right the first time, since it ain't cheap.

BTW: I am also considering premade trusses and having them installed professionally. Just depends upon the cost of the trusses and setup. Trusses or rafters would be 4' on center according to what I am counting on right now. That gives me a total of 9 trusses/rafters.

I am planning on tearing down the old shop once I finish this, and hoping that the new shop is pretty much hidden by the house. Just FYI: I plan on putting in a floor outlet almost dead center of the 24x24 for the table saw.

[Ed62]

One small piece of advice....check out the codes for your area, and adhere to them. When you're done with it, we'll all be jealous.

Ed

[dbhost]

Ditto on the stick to your local building codes...

IF I were to build my dream shop, I would do similar footprint wise, but the 8x24 piece would be a finishing / clean room. Why push over the existing building when you can use it for lawn and garden storage?

[crokett]

Before you build a new shop, have you thought about spending less money to rehab the old one? Could you replace the pole with a steel beam? Why does the water pool? Does the roof leak? Just a thought since you already have a functional building, unless there are other issues you haven't mentioned.

[JSUPreston]

I definately will check with the building codes to make sure things are okay. Even though I am in the city, they tend to forget we are there.

About the old shop. My FIL did put a new roof on it several years ago, but the shop itself is in pretty bad shape. I thought about a steel or laminated beam to get rid of the column, but LarryG and I had some concerns about the fact that the old block walls may collapse under the additional weight. There are quite a few of the blocks that are being held in place by the weight on top of them. The floor of the shop is below grade, and nothing we have done has kept the water out. Also, the floor on one side is 8" lower than the other. Several years ago, I framed out the lower side and used PT plywood to bring it up to mostly level. I say that because none of the concrete is level.

The ceiling is about 7' at its highest and just a tad over 6' at the back, so raising the floor is out of the question. Plus, talking with LarryG here on the board, we were afraid that pouring enough concrete to raise the slab to 2" above grade may actually blow out the walls. There's not enough room up high to install a garage door, and the side entrace area needs more work than I can explain on here.

The old shop is also an eyesore. There are 2 leanto type additions on the back that need to be torn down and rebuilt. Literally, part of the framing of the leanto area includes at least one pallet flipped on its side and metal bed rails. I figure by the time I invested all the money in the shop, I could have a new, larger shop that I'm not worried about it collapsing in on me. Believe me, if I thought it was worth rehabbing the old shop, I would do it, since my wife's grandfather built it. Amazingly, she wants the old shop gone as well and likes what I've come up with so far.

[dbhost]

Gotcha...

None of my business, just something for you to think about. 24x24 is a GREAT size for a home wood shop. 8x24 is fantastic for a finishing room. You CAN cut out part of the 24x24 and end up with 16x24 main shop, 8x24 finishing, which is still roomier than many have it, but I think you would end up tripping over yourself...

IF you can afford it, and have the room for it, go the extra bit and tack on an extra 8' for a finishing room. Not a necessity, but a VERY nice luxury if you can swing it.

Another option is to keep your dust producers on one side of the 24x24, and then benches and such on the other. I have seen guys screen off a section around their bench or work piece while finishing with plastic sheeting to prevent contamination...

[crokett]

Thanks for the explanation on the current shop. A pole barn is an ok shop. Will it be insulated or framed out inside? If not, this will drive your electrical costs up since everything will have to be surface mounted and pulled through conduit.

[JSUPreston]

Playing with Sketchup a little bit, I could possibly cut the main room down to 16x24 and have a finishing room. I would lose 16sq./ft over what I have now, but still wouldn't have any issues with the center column, which would make things a lot easier.

David, good point on the walls. If I were to go ahead and frame and cover them on the inside, I may as well go ahead and build a traditional building on a slab. What I did in my existing shop is run all the wiring up high, and where it came down the wall to a box, I ran it through PVC (gray) conduit. I assume I could do the same here. My current thought is to possibly frame out a couple of the walls later as needed for cabinets, etc.

I forgot to mention that I would obviously move existing electrical over to the new shop. I currently have a single 60A 240V feed to the shop. In the shop, I've broken it out to 2 15/20A 120V circuits. I can't remember the Amps off the top of my head, but I know I have a lot of amps left to work with.

I admit the electrical in scares me. The electrician that ran my line to the existing shop (he was licensed, and I watched him do this), used 10/3 or 12/3 (can't remember) with 2 hots and the ground wire of the 12/3 as neutral. No ground into the shop at all. The shop is 30 to 50 feet from the house. I remember in learning about Ethernet cabling that you shouldn't run copper between buildings like this because of the potential of different grounds. Do I have a potential problem in the making here, since my only ground point (if I have one) for the shop is at the house on the main panel?

[crokett]

If this is going to get inspected you need wiring in conduit. If it is not, you can do anything you want. My dad has everything (and I mean everything) in his barn that is exposed wiring in conduit.

I would put a subpanel in at your shop. Since it is a separate structure it will need its own ground rod. However, the ground and neutral buses in this panel should not be bonded. It used to be you needed 4 wires from your house panel - 2 hots, neutral and ground but I think that has changed. I think somebody posted that here recently. You still need the separate ground rod.

[Thalermade]

I am thinking no other windows or doors for security purposes.

I know cost will factor into installing windows, but I think you should at least look into some non-opening windows, installed a bit higher than traditional windows.

My example comes from a house in my neighborhood that has 2 non-opening windows about 18 inches high and 8 foot long installed on the side of the garage. The bottom of the windows are at least 6 to 7 feet off the ground. Lets light in and nothing else.

Just a thought,
have fun building,
Russ

[JR]

Thalermade makes a good suggestion for letting in natural light. Skylights would help, too. You want as much natural light as you can get.

I'd also suggest installing wood over the slab. Cheap stuff would be ok. It will save your feet and knees as well as your sharpest tools. You won't drop your dull tools. Somewhere I saw a barn-wood recycler, located in the South. I'll see if I can dig up the link.

JR

[LarryG]

While I understand your concerns about security, the windows that Russ and JR (and now me) recommend should be operable so you can get some airflow through the shop, for ventilation. A sealed-up shop is going to be an intolerable sweat box in the Alabama heat, even with fans running. There will also be times when you'll want to cross-ventilate in order to disperse fumes from finishing.

Plan on at least 6" (R-19) of ceiling insulation, preferably 10" (R-30), even if you don't heat/cool the shop.

Sliding doors will work but are usually heavy and can be difficult to weather-seal effectively. My proposed new shop building will have a pair of 2'-8" doors for the main entrance. Stationary power tools, raw materials, and any completed project a hobbyist woodworker (and most pros, too) is likely to build will easily go through an opening that size with ease. Making shop doors larger than necessary just robs you of precious wall space.

The slab needs to be more than 2" above grade; 6" is our usual minimum, except at door openings. Also slope the grade away from the building for at least five feet ... 1/2" per foot minimum, 1" or more is better yet.

Definitely give some thought to a wood floor for a dedicated shop building. It's both softer and warmer to stand on, won't hold moisture like a slab will (which contributes to rust forming on your tools), and you can put in-floor electrical and dust collection anywhere you like, now or later.

[JSUPreston]

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I thought about the windows after I posted. I do want some in there, at least for cross ventilation.

Garage doors sound like a good idea. I was thinking of building to cut down on costs, but I was wondering about weatherproofing as well.

Larry, you've given me a lot to think about in regards to the floor. I'm gonna do a little more homework and may aske a few more questions later.

[DustyandLefty]

And if you're going to have a corrugated tin roof, you can get transparent plexiglass roof sheets in the same pattern to make non-opening skylights.
DustyandLefty

[JSUPreston]

Dusty, I've given that some thought as well. Right now, where the shop would go is under several older trees that I would like to have removed. They keep dropping limbs, and a few have actually gone through the corrugated tin roof of the 8x12 storage building in the back yard. I may do tin with plywood underlayment and leave provisions for removing a few pieces of tin and replacing them with the see through panels once those trees are gone.