Bench cookies and painters pyramids

[herb fellows]

I don't know if anyone has posted about these yet, so I thought I would relate my experience with 2 'new' products I have tried.
First, the Rockler Bench Cookies.
Used them under a heavy door that I was applying poly to. The door is solid 100 year old doug fir, I believe. The word 'heavy' (about 65 lbs) might be key here. The door stuck to the waffled 'rubber' surface somewhat, although it didn't leave an impression on the poly. This was on poly that had dried for about 36 hours, and the Cookies were under the door for about 3-4 hours. Quite possibly would have left an impression if left longer.
To eliminate this, I put waxed paper over the waffling material, seems to work. I left the waffled surface alone on the bottom, so it grips the surface it is put on. The negative to this is that the piece you are working on is now more susceptible to move on the waxed paper, so you can't really horse anything around on the top of the project while using it this way.

second item is the Painters Pyramids.
Again, I think the weight and what you are doing on top is key. I used these under the same door as above, but this time i was sanding with a ROS. The pyramids dug noticeable holes into the door that had to be repaired.
I am not at all sure that if I was just painting the tops of the doors, no weight bearing, the results would have been any different, because they really did dig in.
These might be ok if the project was relatively light weight, but I would be reticent to try it again with any weight on it.
Anybody else have any experience with either of the above?

[pecker]

Rockler shows the pyramids supporting a door

but my experience was like yours. They are pointy enough to leave dimples in the surface of anything moderately heavy. I used them under some boxes I had painted, about 15 pounds each, and regretted it.

They'd be more useful like this where any damage wouldn't be seen.

[LCHIEN]

i got a set of cookies since Rockler had free shipping.
I guess the key in your usage would be the pounds per square inch loading.
With a 50 pound door (guessing) and 4 cookies each about 3" in diameter (about 28 square inches) there's around 2 lbs per sq inch assuming the cookies are flat - as you experienced, the cookies are waffled a bit due to the rubber and therefore you have probably between 2 and 4 lbs per square inch assuming the waffles compress to where about 50% contact is achieved.
With the pyramids there is a theoretical point contact, which probably smashes the point a bit so maybe the point has .1 to .25 sq inches contact area each. Thus the fource at each point is (50 lbs/4)/ .1 to .25
so your load is 125 lbs to 50 lbs per square inch. Or to put it another way, you have about 12.5 pounds bearing on a spot the size of a pencil eraser.

For a door that large and heavy, the thing to do is take a couple of 2x4 about 2 feet long and wrap them with carpet pad. If you bury the staples or tacks in the pad you can fasten the pad to the 2x4. Or glue it. Put the door on two or three of those. That will spread the load over a lot of area and keep it all from sliding around without damage to the door.

[LarryG]

No experience with the bench cookies. They look interesting but I don't buy from Rockler any more, so I've been waiting for another vendor to offer a knock-off. Or I may make my own -- it'd be easy enough to crank out a dozen of them using scrap wood and a leftover piece of tool drawer liner.

I have used the pyramids with great success on cabinet doors, and on the individual leaves of full-size, louvered bifolds. But the latter were still pretty light in weight. The points ARE quite sharp so I can see how using to them to support something heavy could leave dimples.

[Uncle Cracker]

Painters' pyramids are like nails... If you use enough of them, you can lie down on them safely. But if you only use 4 or 6 for something as heavy as a door, then you gots a problem... 65-lb door/4 pyramids = 16.25-lb. on each point, etc. That's the weight of a bowling ball. Not good.

I prefer to use an energy field to levitate the work and stabilize it in space.

[herb fellows]

UC, I agree. The only reason I bought them was to try them out because they do indeed show them supporting a door in the ad! If it was a hollow core door, the weight would be less but the substance of the 'wood' would also be less. From the attached photo, the most I could surmise is 3 on each of the ends of the door.I feel like one of these consumer guys or that show on tv where they try out claims of manufacturers.
So by my reckoning, despite their pictures in the ad, these simply will not do what the ad purports that it can do. Notice that they didn't bother to turn the door over and show you the surface!
As for the Rockler cookies, as stated elsewhere it's certainly easy enough to jimmy rig something as good or better, I also got them with free shipping deal so I thought I'd take a flyer.

[L. D. Jeffries]

Can't talk about the "cookies" as I don't have them yet, but the pyramid's I do use. Bought two sets (12 I think) that work very well for MOST situations. Never tried them on anything real heavy but would guess that spreading the load with a few rather than only four corners would eliminate the damages. So far a thumbs up for them.

[LCHIEN]

unless the table and the door are perfectly flat, placing the door over a myriad of pyramids will still result in the full load being carried and divided over exactly three pyramids. Oh yeah, and the pyramids have zero manufacturing tolerance so they are all perfectly the same height...

At least until they develop dents under the points and settle onto the other pyramids.

Well, it Seems that way to me...

[luteman]

I too was intrigued by the Bench Cookies when they showed up in the Rockler catalog,then I said to my self:"Self, why don't we make our own?" Got out my 3" hole saw and some 5/4 pine scrap and made my own. Glued discs of old router mat on them. They work fine. Might even color them bright blue with magic marker.

[Bill in Buena Park]

I have and use both, but only for their intended purposes, and they're "handy".

The bench cookies work great for elevating a workpiece for clamping, and even as table-traction for a workpiece when I'm sanding (and not just using a large piece of drawer liner.) I would not use them for painting.

The pyramids work very nicely to elevate light things for painting/sealing; I would not put a door or anything heavy on them. I have used them for various size panels, up to 2'x4', and a small chest, with no complaints.

[poolhound]

I have both and they are useful for different things as others have posted. The pyramids I use a lot for raising the work when finishing, as has been noted if the item is too heavy it can leav small marks.

I bought the cookies as they seemed like a good idea for holding items without the need for clamps and they do work pretty well.

[jussi]

For those who bought the cookies, how do you like them? Are they stable? When edge routing does the wood become tippy?

[LCHIEN]

For those who bought the cookies, how do you like them? Are they stable? When edge routing does the wood become tippy?

I haven't used mine yet but they look and feel OK. Tippiness and stability is probably goveren more by the weight of the workpiece than the supporting cookies. A light piece will tip more easily since its own weight keeps it atop the cookies. The lighter the piece, the closer to the edge you need to place the cookies. In that case the round shape might be worse than square cookies, that's the only drawback i see. The cookies themselves look like they are made of plastic, weight is maybe a bit less than wood items of the same size, The rubber tops and bottom are non-skid and grip well to prevent sliding but like i said, tippiness is not from the weight or lack in the cookies but the workpiece. the rubber is thin and doesn't look like it will compress much to contribute to any tippiness.

[kevincan]

I have the pyramids and have used them a lot. All of the projects that I have used them on have been small so I have not noticed any marks on my projects. I think I got 36 in a pack from Hartville.

[cwsmith]

I realize these things don't cost much, but they're often just too expensive for someone like me. Besides, I've got to use these little scraps that have a tendency to pop in the box... just in case.

"Cookies" don't have to be round, and I have a multitude of "blocks" that work well to prop up some project components, assemblies etc. If I don't want it to move on me, I just sandwich in some of that non-skid-like shelf matting.

I've got a lot of home-made "stickers" which I use to stack up the project boards as I've worked through the filling, sanding, finishing, etc. But when it comes to painting my book shelving for the library I usually paint the inside surface first, then insert my pin support sleeves. I found that inserting four or more pins afterwards, allows me to flip the board to paint the other side. That way, I don't have to worry about marring the perviously painted side.

After seeing the "pyramids" in the Rockler catalog, I got the idea of just making a few blocks, drilling a single hole and pushing in one of those inserts. Easy to store in drawer or box, and when I want to use them, I simply insert a shelf pin and that works fine for holding up the work piece without any significant "footprint". The pins are steel with a slightly rounded end, so there's minimal contact, much like the "pyramids".

Just a thought,

CWS