Can these be separate? I maintain they can be. Cabinetman's crazy desk thread has an example of a project where the workmanship is incredible. I can appreciate the talent that went into the piece but it is not something that would ever be in my house.
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David
The chief cause of failure in this life is giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment. -
I agree with you absolutely. Taste is a judgment call, quality is a measurement.Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison -
Style and function are definitely two separate issues. What is sometimes the most important thing is how an "artist" blends the two together, methinks...Comment
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There are countless objects that are exceedingly well made, that make me want to retch stylistically. It's personal preference. Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder.
On the desk thing that cabinetman posted, I really don't like the look of the thing, but I can certainly appreciate the level of effort and skill that went into it...
A lot of Norm Abrams projects on NYW aren't to my liking style wise, but the technique and craftsmanship are something to be admired.Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.Comment
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I dunno. Sometimes attractiveness is in the face of the young lady.
Indeed. I'm not sure I would have that desk, unless I had more money than sense, but I'm pretty sure I would get a great deal of satisfaction from building it. Personally, I'm much more of a "form follows function" kind of person. I think that an object that does it's job well without excess fiddling, parts, or setup is artful in it's own right. I also love things that accomplish one or more tasks in clever ways.
You just opened up a whole can of worms...
Smit
"Be excellent to each other."
Bill & TedComment
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I don't think so. Personally I like Norm's work generally better than David Mark's. Does David have a better eye for design? Certainly but Norm just seems more attainable, if you know what I mean. Here is a table my brother did (previously posted here)
I would never design a table like that. I'd have 3 legs w/stretchers, yes. The legs might be tapered or might have a slight curve to them but mostly they'd be there to hold the top up. I think function first, form second and if there is a conflict, function will win every time.David
The chief cause of failure in this life is giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment.Comment
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Doug Kerfoot
"Sacrificial fence? Aren't they all?"
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KeyLlama.comComment
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Attractiveness is definitly an opinion, but without good workmanship, can it be attractive? Shoddy workmanship can quickly degrade the appearance of something. examples? Glue squeeze out showing comes to mind.Comment
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Well that depends.... again I go for function over form. So if I am building a a set of shop shelves or ones in the shed, so long as they are strong and hold things up, I don't care what they look like. I have cabinets in my shop in 3 different colors. I got them for free. They hold stuff. I could repaint, but why bother? I have higher standards for furniture, but I won't let function take a back seat to form there either.David
The chief cause of failure in this life is giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment.Comment
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But I have heard a lot of guys wine about their bowling ball.
Bill"I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in."-Kenny RogersComment
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are you unable to differentiate aesthetics from build quality? durability, weight, size are all measurable and can be compared to a criteria if need be, they are not pure judgement. aesthetics are purely personal preference, there is no measurement for beauty.
a bowling ball or wine glass would be compared to their respective criteria as far as quality and workmanship, not to each other.Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas EdisonComment
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Doug Kerfoot
"Sacrificial fence? Aren't they all?"
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KeyLlama.comComment
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Your comparison regarding shelves shows my point. You don't care what they look like so you apparently did not take the time to be very precise with your workmanship. They still function, and are probably stronger than they need to be. But you did not take the time to make sure there was no glue runs, to hide nails or screws, or even to use more than scrap wood, perhaps. You may have taken time for some parts, and have shelves with super-model potential, that just don't have the make-up applied. In that case, workmanship was stopped short, because no more was necessary. If this is the case, there may be some gardeners out there that think your shelves are sexy hot. The original question is about workmanship and attractiveness. Apparently you minimized your workmanship because you did not need attractive shelves. Had you taken the time to put a better face on any 2x4's you used, added an edge to any plywood/particle board you used, and provided a smooth finsh for painting, you would have increased the amount of work you did, and hence increase your workmanship, making them more attractive. But they didn't need to be that attractive. They are as attractive as they need to be by producing them with as little workmanship as needed to complete their task.
To use the argument that you are putting form over function has nothing to do with how much attention you paid to your workmanship. Workmanship vs attractiveness is not the same as function vs form. Form is a part of attractiveness, not all of what makes something attractive. (Had your brother painted the glass table top with a sardine, would the same people still find it attractive?). Function and workmanship are far from the same thing. Would your brother's table hold a glass of water just as well as your straight legged version? Yes. The form is in the design, and the 2 forms would be vastly different. Would they both have good workmanship? If yours was going in your house, and not being coverede by a table cloth, then I suspect they would both have very good workmanship.
So I humbly suggest that to the point of Workmanship vs Attractiveness, we seem to half agree. I submit that Workmanship influences attractiveness, but an attractive piece does not enhance the workmanship. this is simply because one is an opinion, while the other could be measured. Walk thru a crafts festival, or even a furniture store. Ever think, "Wow! That is really built well. Too bad it isn't my style."
KarlComment
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