Is public posting of PM's legal?

[dbhost]

Phil,

This sure seems like the SCO vs. Linux lawsuits, except SCO was behaving as a schill for Microsoft and attempting to extort money from IBM, and anyone so brazen as to use Linux, particularly Novell, Daimler Chrysler, and AutoZone... If you are keeping up with it, you can see how well that went for SCO...

You might consider taking this to the open source community via Slashdot, the EFF, and perhaps Groklaw. There are plenty of very qualified men and women out there that have lots of experience fighting off just these sort of stupid abuses of the patent and copyright system. And these are many of the folks pushing hardest for reform in these areas.

Again, it seems like another case of big IP (in this case intellectual property) vs. the people...

[sparkeyjames]

From what I have read here so far it would seem you have president for prior art. This can be submitted as a challenge to a patent. Please don't ask me how to go about this I don't know. I only know it is possible. If the prior art negates a good bit of their patent the patent can then be put up for review and then revoked if the prior art indeed was present before the patent was applied for. This kind of thing is happening all the time now with software patents. I don't even think you need a lawyer for this just study the patent office patent review rules. If there are fees involved in doing this I don't know what they would be. Something like what they are doing to you would get me riled enough to find out and possibly take action. Oh yeah and post those PM's and tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.

[LinuxRandal]

Phil,

This sure seems like the SCO vs. Linux lawsuits, except SCO was behaving as a schill for Microsoft and attempting to extort money from IBM, and anyone so brazen as to use Linux, particularly Novell, Daimler Chrysler, and AutoZone... If you are keeping up with it, you can see how well that went for SCO...

You might consider taking this to the open source community via Slashdot, the EFF, and perhaps Groklaw. There are plenty of very qualified men and women out there that have lots of experience fighting off just these sort of stupid abuses of the patent and copyright system. And these are many of the folks pushing hardest for reform in these areas.

Again, it seems like another case of big IP (in this case intellectual property) vs. the people...

The SCO case(s) are 5 years old (in some cases) and ongoing. You comparision, would be like the Red Hat v SCO case, where they filed seeking a declaration of non infringment. It STILL hasn't had its day in court, and last I read, is still behind the IBM case (next year sometime).

Sparky, The reason I recommended Groklaw, is there has been some articles and links on patent overturning and requesting a review. I also recommended Rarebear, because LV was trying to patent something, that in effect Stanley had patented in the 1800's and that patent had LONG been expired.

I wish him well, and have an inkling of what he is going through, but he is almost guaranteed to have to spend some money out of pocket, to get the results he wants. It would be a different story if he was a lawyer (like the monster cable threat story from a year or so ago).

[Tom Slick]

I still don't understand why they are harassing you.

[cgallery]

It would be a different story if he was a lawyer (like the monster cable threat story from a year or so ago).

Hey, maybe I should contact THAT guy!

[tribalwind]

It would be a different story if he was a lawyer (like the monster cable threat story from a year or so ago).

LOL, that was a good read, thanks for sharing.
i worked as a cadd draftsman/designer in highend A/V system design/install for a few years (got out of that beginning of this year)

[vaking]

I think you guys are all missing it. This case has nothing to do with intellectual property and everything to do with revenue stream.
Dowellmax jig is advertized in many woodworking magazines as "universal" solution to all dowelling problems. Who would buy this jig? I doubt a professional woodworker would. Even if he does - there aren't many of them. An amateur handyman making his first project and having only basic household tools like a drill is much more likely to buy dowellmax. What is the competition for dowellmax jig? Any dowelling jig that is simple enough to make but can get specific job done and can stop the person from shelling out money for universal solution. So when Cgallery publishes his jig plans in woodworkers magazines he provides an alternative to dowellmax and therefore interferes with OMS revenue stream. OMS knows very well that jig plans offered by CGallery are closer to jigs existed long before dowellmax than they are to the commercial jig. There is no patent infringement - dowellmax patent is very narrow and that was the only way to patent the commercial jig after so many jig plans have already been published. The important part is that plans published years ago are history, newbie woodworker has no knowledge of those. Plans published now provide a current alternative to dowellmax, especially if it is published in same magazines as dowellmax ads. So OMS is on a mission to portray you as troublemaker, so magazines would not publish your plans. Intelectual property is just a pretense here, OMS knows there will not be any real analysis of patents done. For them this is about protecting revenue stream, for you - it is a hobby. OMS is prepared to spend few thousand dollars to make sure you don't publish your jigs, are you prepared to spend few thousand dolllars to publish article about a hobby? It is really simple.

[dkerfoot]

Having followed this thread a while. I felt compelled to send the following e-mail to the owner of OMS Tool Company:

Jim Lindsey,

I just wanted to let you know that your harassment of woodworkers who post plans for doweling jigs that are nothing at all like the Dowelmax has convinced me to never buy any product marketed by O.M.S. I myself am a small business owner and I can appreciate protecting your valuable intellectual property. You however have crossed well over that line and are employing brutish and ham-fisted tactics where it is clear that you have no reasonable claim.

The woodworking community is a small and tight-knit group. Produce an excellent product and treat customers well and you can become a folk hero like Leonard Lee or Ron Hock. Harass your woodworking brethren and you will become a pariah, like Jim Lindsey. Whatever your lawyer may be advising you, I’d suggest you start listening to common sense and decency. Doing the right thing is always the correct business decision.


Doug Kerfoot

By the way, they use a GMail address, so I don't think we are dealing with a huge company here. I'd guess it is Mr Lindsey and perhaps a couple of helpers. Perhaps...

[sparkeyjames]

Having followed this thread a while. I felt compelled to send the following e-mail to the owner of OMS Tool Company:



By the way, they use a GMail address, so I don't think we are dealing with a huge company here. I'd guess it is Mr Lindsey and perhaps a couple of helpers. Perhaps...

I would have finished off by saying....

After looking at your product I have now come up with 10 more ways of making a commercial dowel jig product that does not infringe on your patent. I am a woodworker and a professional engineer. Wonder if you need any competition?

[gary]

By the way, they use a GMail address, so I don't think we are dealing with a huge company here. I'd guess it is Mr Lindsey and perhaps a couple of helpers. Perhaps...

Actually many large companies are beginning to use Gmail instead of in-house mail systems. More economical.

[dkerfoot]

Actually many large companies are beginning to use Gmail instead of in-house mail systems. More economical.

If you spend a little time on the website, it is obvious that it is run by one guy and he has one product. I also saw on a recent review that he is the one who answers the phone. It is pretty hard to build a large company exclusively on $300 dowel jigs.

This isn't a case of having a slew of corporate lawyers on retainer. It is one guy trying to make a living in a niche market. (Something I have some experience in!) If he is convinced he is alienating his consumer base he will change tactics.

[footprintsinconc]

wow, phil, i am sorry to hear they are harassing you in such a manner. my head hurts after reading all that patent stuff, but clearly as you and others have stated, your jig is different.

i believe that doug's email is what everyone should be sending to to OMS so they can see that ww community can also decide for themselves right from wrong and then will respond accordingly. so i encourage that others write to them as well and help a fellow wworker.

as for posting the pms, i dont see anything wrong making it public since it left their hands AND they never asked for it to be for "your eyes only".

good luck!