I Just Got a Call From the Honda Dealer

[docrowan]

I am a supporter of nitrogen fill. I work for a heavy equipment dealer and all of our rubber tire machines have nitrogen fill from the factory. Believe me, the engineers at the manufacturer would not specify it if they didn't see the value. This is not a gimmick to generate more sales, in fact most of our customers have no idea that their tires are nitrogen filled.

The advantage of nitrogen fill is not so much getting rid of the oxygen as it is getting rid of the moisture. As Loring points out, Boyle's laws don't work dramatically differently between oxygen and nitrogen. But the moisture in compressed air condenses on your wheels and the inside of your tires during the night, then when your tires heat up while driving it flashes into steam. This phase change from fluid to gas is what causes the change in pressure.

Nitrogen is extremely dry, no moisture. With no moisture and no oxygen, the inside of your steel wheels don't rust and the pressure stays much more stable. Also the wheels can become extremely hot during heavy braking. Nitrogen will not support combustion on the inside of the tire. Another (minor) benefit is it slows oxidation on the inside of the tire. True, the outside of the tire is also oxidizing, but the inside of an air-filled tire is filled with air at about 2 1/2 times the outside pressure.

From personal experience, I regularly (every few months) had to adjust the pressure on my air-filled tires. I've never had to adjust my nitrogen-filled tires except when I have had a puncture. Once the tire was repaired and refilled with nitrogen I never had to touch it again.

[jking]

I am a supporter of nitrogen fill. I work for a heavy equipment dealer and all of our rubber tire machines have nitrogen fill from the factory. Believe me, the engineers at the manufacturer would not specify it if they didn't see the value. This is not a gimmick to generate more sales, in fact most of our customers have no idea that their tires are nitrogen filled.

The advantage of nitrogen fill is not so much getting rid of the oxygen as it is getting rid of the moisture. As Loring points out, Boyle's laws don't work dramatically differently between oxygen and nitrogen. But the moisture in compressed air condenses on your wheels and the inside of your tires during the night, then when your tires heat up while driving it flashes into steam. This phase change from fluid to gas is what causes the change in pressure.

Nitrogen is extremely dry, no moisture. With no moisture and no oxygen, the inside of your steel wheels don't rust and the pressure stays much more stable. Also the wheels can become extremely hot during heavy braking. Nitrogen will not support combustion on the inside of the tire. Another (minor) benefit is it slows oxidation on the inside of the tire. True, the outside of the tire is also oxidizing, but the inside of an air-filled tire is filled with air at about 2 1/2 times the outside pressure.

From personal experience, I regularly (every few months) had to adjust the pressure on my air-filled tires. I've never had to adjust my nitrogen-filled tires except when I have had a puncture. Once the tire was repaired and refilled with nitrogen I never had to touch it again.

For the average driver, though, the benefit just isn't there. The fluctuation in tire pressure due to moisture in an air-filled tire isn't going to be dramatic. The average driver probably doesn't notice a 5 psi change in pressure anyway. Most people let the dealer or quick lube place check the tires with oil changes. The biggest tire pressure issue the average driver is going to have is when the tire gets a leak from a nail, bad valve stem, etc. Nitrogen isn't going to provide any benefit here. I would also guess that roughly 50% of the cars & pickups on the road (not including heavy equipment) do not have steel wheels anymore. For the ones that do, the rest of the car will likely fall apart long before the wheel actually rusts out. I've been around a lot of very old steel wheels & can't remember seeing one that's rusted through in any reasonable period of time.

I don't doubt there are special applications where nitrogen may have value, but, for most people, it's an added expense that isn't necessary.

Back to the OP, I'd rather work with a dealer who is motivated by a bonus than one who isn't motivated at all.

[JimD]

If you buy nitrogen in big bottles and use them instead of a compressor to fill tires, it probably costs little to nothing to use. If you have to pay to get nitrogen used, I am on the side of it isn't worth it. I think it's better, just not enough better to be worth much.

I bought a Hyundai this year and a Suzuki a couple years ago (both new, both well under list price). I got calls right after the sale from both dealerships. Pretty much the same drill. I also got detailed questionaires from both manufacturers. Honda might be better but it seems a least very similar to my experiences. I also got coupons for service and a little gift from the Hyundai dealer (some kind of non-slip mat for the dash). The Hyundai dealer didn't send us the tag or tell us they had it. But then my daughter didn't call them either. We got a tax bill from the state that they were supposed to have paid so either the dealer made another mistake or the silly state I live in is messed again. Either seems very plausible. The Suzuki dealership didn't mess anything like this up but kept insisting that the check engine light for a vapor leak was us not installing the gas cap correctly. It was a faulty vacumn pump found after 3 visits. If this ever happens to you remember two words, smoke test. Takes less than 15 minutes.

I think it's still too early to tell much but I hope the dealer is as good as you currently think.

Jim

[crokett]

Back to the OP, I'd rather work with a dealer who is motivated by a bonus than one who isn't motivated at all.

Ding Ding Ding! I'm not naive enough to think he was calling just to be nice. I figured there was money in it for him somewhere, even if it was just the possibility that I might buy another car from him. However, he was aware of the issues I had before I had a chance to tell him which shows at least some hands-on. That tells me someone somewhere in their chain of command expects excellence, be it the owner or Honda Corp.

[LinuxRandal]

If you buy nitrogen in big bottles and use them instead of a compressor to fill tires, it probably costs little to nothing to use. If you have to pay to get nitrogen used, I am on the side of it isn't worth it. I think it's better, just not enough better to be worth much.


Jim

Since rust on the inside of the wheels was mentioned, I would say this would mater more (nitrogen) on a new vehicle, rather then one that has already started rusting, has 60,000 miles and you use your compressor on. Now if your buying high dollar new wheels and tires maybe.

While not worth it for most of us, the one area I would like to try it, is my wheelbarrow. It is ALWAYS flat when I need it.

[prlundberg]

...While not worth it for most of us, the one area I would like to try it, is my wheelbarrow. It is ALWAYS flat when I need it.

LOL, mine too.

What I don't get is how do you purge the oxygen out? There's quite a bit of air in a tire even when it's completely flat, and I would think sucking all the air out would take the tire off the bead and/or damage it.

At best I figure you're only increasing the Nitrogen content to 90% or so. For the average driver it does seem like a waste.