Saw Stop

[Ed62]

Yesterday I received a flyer from Woodcraft. Some time ago I had mentioned the Saw Stop to my wife, and now they have one for under $1800.00. My wife saw the ad, and told me to go buy one. Since I have her blessing, I have to admit it's tempting.

While browsing the web today, I found a pretty interesting article from 2006 pertaining to the Saw Stop. I thought some of you might like to read it http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100901172.html .

Ed

[Uncle Cracker]

Interesting. It's amazing to see the clutter of red tape...

[Whaler]

That was a very interesting article.
Last year the Seattle Woodcraft sold one to a high school wood shop. The instructor wanted to replace all 3 of their saws but was only allowed to buy the one. About a week after installing it a student ran his finger into a dado blade. He went home with only a band aid on the finger and the shop got the other 2 Saw Stops.

[chopnhack]

Sad that safety should cost so much. You would think that with mass use of the product the cost would drop to the point where it would be negligible. Also, why not offer it as an add on instead of fighting the guy? That's what i would have done if I was a tool company ceo.

[RAFlorida]

Thanks Ed for bringing up a good point of safety.

characters added.

[crokett]

Everything in that article has been hashed and rehashed to death. We don't need another discussion here.

Ed, if you get the saw, write a review for us. I don't know why you aren't running down to the store though.

[Gator95]

Yesterday I received a flyer from Woodcraft. Some time ago I had mentioned the Saw Stop to my wife, and now they have one for under $1800.00.

That has to be contractor saw version, no?

[ironhat]

Yesterday I received a flyer from Woodcraft. Some time ago I had mentioned the Saw Stop to my wife, and now they have one for under $1800.00. My wife saw the ad, and told me to go buy one. Since I have her blessing, I have to admit it's tempting.

<snip>.

Ed

I'd be out the door before she could put the period to her sentence!

[dbhost]

This has been gone over again and again, but the key phrases in that article to me were...

"They suggested the Oregon inventor was using a safety issue to profiteer. "He wants to force his device on the industry at an unreasonable price," said Art Herold , a Washington attorney for the institute. Herold said it would be improper for the agency to mandate a standard because "it would become a promoter and silent partner" in Gass's technology."

My objection to SawStop is just that, a guy with a good idea, instead of honestly bringing it to the open market, and letting market forces decide the success or failure of his technology attempted, when his attempts to sell to other companies failed, to get the heavy hand of government regulators to force companies to use his inillectual property, thus guaranteeing him a monopoly...

Oh and this is typical of a Laywers approach to "making things right"...

"Gass is keeping busy. He is developing less expensive models of his saws and is involved on the legal front. He has testified as an expert in one lawsuit against a manufacturer over injuries and is consulting with plaintiffs' lawyers in other cases."

Gass and his company deserve Kudos for trying to develop less expensive models, I highly doubt they have any interest in lower price point saws comparable to a SawStop Equipped BT3x00, but we can always hope. It's the abuse of the legal system for his financial gain that drives me batty...

[Ed62]

That has to be contractor saw version, no?

Correct.

[cabinetman]

Everything in that article has been hashed and rehashed to death. We don't need another discussion here.

Ed, if you get the saw, write a review for us. I don't know why you aren't running down to the store though.

EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS. Isn't Woodcraft open 9-5, or something like that?
.

[jackellis]

It's the abuse of the legal system for his financial gain that drives me batty...

Amen. I've worked for two small startup companies and our objective was always to make our widget an industry standard so we could charge a premium price. Some people call it an economic moat. Others call it a sustainable economic advantage. As a business person, I applaud him for trying. As a consumer, well this is a family web site.

Besides, as someone pointed out in another post, the sawstop will prevent injuries from contact with a spinning blade but it does nothing to prevent kickback. You still have to think while using a saw or any other power tool. Not only that, but if a Sawstop ever fails, the inventor is going to find himself on the really uncomfortable end of a product liability suit, and I guarantee you he will have one fail.

Meantime, I happily rely on my guards, pawls, half-length fence, safety glasses, push sticks, push shoe and good sense to keep me out of trouble.

[Pappy]

Trying to force the device on the industry was nearly his undoing.

I have seen the Saw Stop Saw demoed and it is impressive. While it may not be an affordable option for most hobbiest, Dick mentioned one of the 2 areas where it should be well worth the extra money. The best shop teacher can't watch every student every minute. A band aid injury from a dado blade accident more than justified the cost of all 3 saws.

The other area where it makes sense is in industrial shops. The liability costs from one severe accident could put a company in serious financial trouble. Palm Harbor Homes (a mobile home mfg) replaced it's Unisaws with Saw Stops shortly after they were introduced. If more companies start to look at the switch to a safer saw, the other saw mfg will start to look at developing/implementing similar systems. This will encourage research to make the devices more cost effective and possibly more reliable.

[dbhost]

Don,

I couldn't agree with you more. My point was, and I probably expressed it wrong, that the Saw Stop technology sure does look like a quantum leap forward in woodworking safety devices, and I would like to see it and similar devices more readily available. But I do NOT want to see this device mandated thus providing a government forced monopoly to the inventor.

I understand that as an attorney, the inventor is going to naturally see Government agencies, and the courts as the remedy for what he sees as a problem. I personally find this offensive. Instead, build a range of these products for various price points. I wasn't kidding when I said I would love to see a saw similar to in features and quality, and priced like the BT3x00 was with the SawStop technology. (HEY Ryobi, listen up!).

If this guy is truly serious about getting the technology in the hands of the average woodworker, he will come down in his licensing price scheme, and work more actively on collaborating with other manufacturers.

Would I like to own a SawStop saw? Sure. Is there value to what the saw does, or more importantly doesn't do? You betcha. Is the SawStop the best saw for its price on the market? That's debateable. Specifically I have seen a few reviews on them that are claiming the table surfaces are less than true and flat, and that the saws exhibit some excessive vibration. That was specifically with the contractors saw, and to be fair, I believe the reviewers were looking at a pre production prototype.

[jackellis]

I saw the Woodcraft mailer just after my earlier post. IMHO $1800 is a lot of money for a contractor's saw, especially for a hobbyist.

The inventor makes good arguments about safety and I'm sure he was thinking along the lines of safety mandates like seat belts and air bags. However, unlike auto safety advocates, he wanted a monopoly. Not illegal, not unethical, but certainly hard for most people to stomach.

On the other hand, traditional saw manufacturers don't exactly have pristine motives in all this. 8% is essentially half their pre-tax profit margin and I'm sure the business is very competitive. Even if they were working through the CFTC, I have to wonder whether they colluded to lock the newcomer out.