High School Woodshop Closing

[bluzcat]

After reading in Bargain Alerts about a HS shop closing in Sandusky, OH, I started wondering how this happens. Is the potential liability just too great? Do parents get a chance to try to save a shop program? My girls are in a school systems that still has metal and wood shop. The oldest is just in 6th grade, she has a few years to go. I just hope there is still a shop program when my kids get to HS. I agree with dbhost from BA post; I have a lot of fond memories and learned a lot from my HS shop days (wish I still had those speaker boxes I made in 10th grade!)

[Daryl]

I think there is a general loss of interest and students are focusing on classes that will be usefull in college, also schools are cramped for space so something has to go. In older schools the shop equipment is out of date and worn and would need replaced. Lets just say the times are changing.

[Sam Conder]

After reading in Bargain Alerts about a HS shop closing in Sandusky, OH, I started wondering how this happens. Is the potential liability just too great? Do parents get a chance to try to save a shop program? My girls are in a school systems that still has metal and wood shop. The oldest is just in 6th grade, she has a few years to go. I just hope there is still a shop program when my kids get to HS. I agree with dbhost from BA post; I have a lot of fond memories and learned a lot from my HS shop days (wish I still had those speaker boxes I made in 10th grade!)

Basically it comes down to standardized test scores. It's a lot easier to prove that XYZ Instructional Software in a school computer lab raises test scores than it is to prove that tablesaws, jointers and lathes improve test scores. Since schools can't afford shop classes AND multiple computer labs and site licenses to obscenely expensive educational software, they axe the shop class and turn them into "tech ed" labs.

Sorry for the negativity, but this is a subject I deal with on a daily basis and in my position as an IT Manager for a 35,000 student public school district, I can't seem to prove to teachers and principals that computers are not the answers to all our student's problems.

[pierhogunn]

One thing that I wish I did in College was enroll in some of the wood working / metal working classes that App State offered, I didn't know about them until well into my Jr. year, and by then, my next 3 semesters were already laid out.

My middleschool shop class was awesome, even if it did stink of wintergreen flavored dip.

[cabinetman]

I checked my old high school and surprisingly they still have an Industrial Arts program, but it's called "Building and Construction Technology". They do have a hands on for metal and wood, but not a hobbyist program like the old "wood shop" days. It's occupationally directed, including the "business end". There are 7 levels, starting with those courses that become pre-requisites and co-requisites for the rest.

They don't show a Driver's Ed course, which is very disappointing. That should be a required course. They had one when I was in HS.
.

[Sam Conder]

They don't show a Driver's Ed course, which is very disappointing. That should be a required course. They had one when I was in HS.

Here in KY, they had do get rid of Drivers Ed. They never got to use the cars because the sex ed teachers always had them reserved!

<grins, ducks & runs!>

[dbhost]

Funny thing about shop class vs. tech ed classes. I graduated high school in the mid 1980s, and we had tech ed classes, AND wood shop, AND metal shop, AND auto shop. I still have the pencil box I built in 7th grade wood shop, and the bent lamination skateboard I made as a Freshman in HS.

The very concept that children need shop class to teach them the trade they will be involved in is ludicrous. I am by no means a woodworking professional, and although I DID work as a mechanic, it wasn't because of high school auto shop. The lessons to be taught in the workshop are lessons of character, hard work, and creativity. I remember working on a plywood topped dining room set with my best friend in high school. He was my best man at my wedding as well. And funny thing, he still has that old dining room set. Chairs and all that we built in 1984!

I am truly saddened at the state of education because of the loss of classes like wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, music, A/V, etc... But you folks are right, none of these classes help prepare the kids for the standardized tests, what they do is help students prepare for life. I guess the school districts forgot about that.

I really don't want to make this sound pollitical, but it might. I beg a little discretion from Sam, and the other mods. If I go over the line here, let me know, I'll edit this next bit out...

With the state that our schools are in, with things that children are being taught in our schools, and those things that they are not, my wife and I are seriously considering home schooling our children, or getting them into a good private school. I just don't feel like the public schools will give our kids the same, or better education than we received, and I don't feel we received as good, or better of an education than our parents...

[Sam Conder]

But you folks are right, none of these classes help prepare the kids for the standardized tests, what they do is help students prepare for life. I guess the school districts forgot about that.

Better standardized test scores = more state and federal funding. In a sick sorta way it IS teaching the students about real life... Anymore, it's all about the bucks.

[crokett]

My jr high school had a woodshop as did the high school. I have no idea if they still do. There was also a metal shop. We did have a program to learn a trade (auto mechanic, etc) but that was at a local community college. The programs were viewed as kind of a last stop and for the most part they were. However one thing I learned then was that the cream always rises.

One of my friends was smart enough to go to college but knew he didn't want to. By the time he got out of high school he was a decent machinist and a good auto mechanic. He had no problems getting a job and the last time I talked to him he was managing the service dept at the dealer he started at. He was planning to go back to school because his boss wanted to promote him but said he needed a degree first.

[dbhost]

This thread got me curious, so I went and checked out the course catalog at my old high school, they not only still have wood shop, (They call it industrial engineering) but they have classes for construction, and fine woodworking. If I could find a job in my old hometown I would pack up and move. My local HS where I live doesn't have any interest in the "industrial arts"...

[mashtun]

High School Woodshop Closing

I posted this under the actual Auction thread, but thought I would post it here too.

Unfortunatly it is not just wood shop classes that they are closing. A friend of mine was teaching a small engine repair class in a local high school. He could take 120 students a year for the class. It was so popular there was about 500 students a year that wanted to take it. They would be accepted strictly on the basis of their grades. He had stories of the class Clown, going from barely passing to over a 3.8 gpa to get in.

The school admin closed it down along with serveral other work programs in an effort to raise the level of graduates going on to college, and standardized test scores.

The class that replaced it? Some sort of Physical education prep class. Number of students taking it? 20 last year. Oh and the teacher for this class drives 90 miles to the school each day, bacuse he is can't find work.

John

[paintandbodtman]

shop classes

I can't speak for the rest of the states,But I'll bet the following applies to them as well.

In North Carolina and probably all states the vocational classes are funded by federal money not by state money. At a staff meeting about 5 years ago we were informed of a new policy that allowed schools to divert some of this money toward academics, to which I replied so we're going to see the funding for our courses start drying up in the future,"oh no nothing like that" personally I think you are now seeing the fruits of that policy.
Another thing that hurt the vocational classes was that students had to pick a college or vocational track so now students can't use these classes as an elective to fill the day with.
Most of these changes started about the time "No Child Left Behind" started and are just now starting to change the way schools value these classes.
The sad part is the employment demographics relating to 4yrs or more of formal ed vs some kind of skilled labor training has'nt changed that much since the 40s or 50s.Kids are hearing from both parents and educators both, " Get you a college degree and you'll make more money and want have to work as hard us in the process" one of the worst lies ever perpetrated in MHO.
We have pumped out college degrees and watered the standards down to the point that a 4 year degree today means not much more then a high school diploma meant in the 60s and 70s.In order to get the lucrative jobs today demands master's and doctorate's degrees, all of which helped create the problems we're faceing today in both the economy and the social arena in MHO.

Wayne

[Mrs. Wallnut]

I know that our MS here still has a wood shop because my daughter is going to take that along with a CAD or designing type of class with the computer. I don't know about our HS here but it used to have wood shop, metal shop, auto shop and a welding class which I ended up taking my senior year and I did very well for being the only girl in the class. I learned how to fix the floor board of my Dodge Aspen RT, the back passenger floor had a hole in it and along with the advice of my teacher I fixed it and did a very good job, better than most of the boys that were in the class, or so the teacher told me.

I had a blast in those classes and I remember making a small book holder when I was in MS and the dado's that I made were so uneven and horrible but I was proud that I had made it.

[jackellis]

Some of the pressure for academics is coming from business, which has trouble finding enough qualified technical people in many parts of the country. Case in point - a lot of the folks I've worked with over the years who have college degrees can barely write or spell.

To tell the truth, I used to gripe about what we'd have to pay a plumber or an electrician until I got older and realized good trades people are worth every penny I pay them, especially when I can't do the work myself.

As bad as you think it is here, in places like Germany, kids are tested at about 12 years old and either put into an academic course that leads to a free college ride or they're put into a vocational track that leads to a vocational career...and it's almost impossible to move from one to the other. Although they may be a little more limited than they used to be, young folks here have many more options.

Another point on academics. Machinists have to be a lot more mathematically literate than they used to be. That includes statistics, which isn't exactly a lightweight course of study.

[shoottx]

Way back in the old days of my high school years at a small town school, the system had two tracks, college and vocational.

Since it was deemed, based on test scores (I am good at taking test, all the way through college taking test and not understanding the material) I was in the college track. Since I was college tracked I could not enroll in any of the "shop classes". It really irritated me

You could take agriculture classes in the college track but not shop.

So I am spending my time now catching up on the missing high school education. (and pranks)

In addition I have two good friends that followed the "vocational ed route". They built businesses made a pile of money, sold the businesses and retired early. And college is helping me how? College just prepares you for the rat race. Even if you happen to win the rat race you are only the fastest rat!