A Liability Question

[eccentrictinkerer]

After semi-retiring seven years ago I started doing handyman work for family and neighbors. I am one of the un-licensed, un-insured folks you are discussing.

I checked out insurance and decide that $100/month was just too much.

I replace lightswitches, faucets, hose bibbs, and deck boards. I do everything to code and and pride myself on very high quality work.

I enjoy using my shop to build an occasional bookcase for cabinet and my work enables me to buy nice tools and materials for my own projects.

I have the advantage over many of my peers, in that I work only by referral. Everyone I work for knows me and my work. They know that I'm not insured and not licensed. My only nightmare is spilling a can of paint on a rare Oriental carpet. (I have a lot of very thick paint tarps!)

In my area there is a real lack of good, honest handymen. I turn down almost as much work as I take on. If I were to be required to be licensed and insured I'd just retire and spend all my time in the shop.

I enjoy my job and meet really interesting people. I do a lot of pro-bono work for elderly folks. The stories I hear about dishonest handymen would curl you hair!

To tell the truth, I'd probably work for free, but I really enjoy buying new tools!

[iceman61]

I don't think you really would have an issue if you hire the guy. The odds on the guy getting hurt by just laying pavers for a patio is slim to none. How can this guy get hurt is what you need to think about.

He shaves out some sod & a few inches of dirt, probably with a shovel.
He spreads out crushed limestone & sand & stone dust with a rake.
He might use a jumping jack tamp for compaction.
He will be lifting pavers one at a time, maybe 10-20 lbs each.

This guy could strain his back, but what's the odds? He could fall dead with a heart attack, health issue, not job related. The only issue I think you should think about would be contractor liability insurance in case they hit underground utilities but this again is a mute point because the digging depth will probably only be 6-10 inches.

Just be sure & check out some references on whoever you hire. Hope this helps.

[herb fellows]

Unless the following is true, I don't see a problem with admitting you knew he didn't have insurance.


Is that what the law says? I doubt it, of course I don't really know.

Ed

I'm in NYC, and I believe the way they do it is that they require a permit for most work. You cannot get a permit without having insurance, workmens comp, NYC license, whatever.
So you're doing the work without a permit, which is breaking the law.

[dbhost]

I'm in NYC, and I believe the way they do it is that they require a permit for most work. You cannot get a permit without having insurance, workmens comp, NYC license, whatever.
So you're doing the work without a permit, which is breaking the law.

Yeah, but in NYC, don't the require Union membership for permits too? That's not a real comparison to "fly over country" that big media wants to ignore.

In League City for example, there is no permit required for the type of landscape work the OP is discussing. But for example, a homeowner can pull his own permit for a shed project, or siding or whatever. As long as your documents are in order, you are good to go.

Funny thing is, a shed on a slab foundation is a permanent structure and thus requires a permit, and approval from the HOA, but a shed on pier & beam or skids is a movable structure and therefore not subject to permitting or the HOA (as long as it isn't visible from the road) but ONLY if it is 120sq ft or less. Which means MOST home owners put up sheds on skids, which means most sheds in my area are more vulnerable to hurricane damage...

[Schleeper]

My wife and I used to own a condo in Central FL back in the 90's, and I seem to recall some pretty stringent laws that were enacted to keep people (largely seniors) from being preyed on by dishonest contractors. I did a little digging, and came up with this: http://www.bancf.com/hire_licensed.asp

You have liability exposure the moment anyone steps foot on your property, not just handymen. However, that doesn't mean you automatically become their medical and disability insurance. Anyone trying to collect from you must go into a court of law and prove that their injuries were the result of your negligence. If the guy injures his back moving a paver from the pallet to the patio area, that's not your problem. (However, you may still have to go through the hassles and vagaries of being sued.)

For a small, outdoor, ground-level job like this, I don't see much of a problem. Just take the normal precautions to keep your property free of hazardous conditions that could endanger visitors, and carry a sufficient amount of liability coverage in your homeowner policy to protect against the unforeseeable.

[gsmittle]

how about

The state for having a sharp license plate made in an uninsured state prison facility using old out of date metalworking/stamping machines with poorly maintained deburring/deflashing equipment.
The auto maker for having failed to protect the plate from meeting unprotected persons with warning labels or guards.

How about:

The sponge/rag manufacturer for requiring pressure/motion for their product to work and not warning about possible license plate cuts

The soap manufacturer for not warning that use of their product to wash cars may result in license plate cuts.

The city for negligently supplying the water for car-washing without license-plate-cut-guards.

We could probably take this all the way back to the Big Bang if we wanted to...

g.

[Russianwolf]

Any decent lawyer would poke a hole in that in an instant for the simple reason that piece of paper is you admitting that you were aware he does not have insurance. Sadly, this is the type of society we live in......

Change the wording to "contractor is responsible for all insurances and will not hold the contractee liable in the event that said insurance is not adequate"

Now I don't have to know if you have isurance or not, but I'm covered. (Get the feeling I read a lot of contracts )

[Schleeper]

Mike, that warm feeling you have from being "covered," just means you peed your pants.

The reasons why you want contractors to have workmen's comp. and their own liability insurance, is so you and/or your insurance carrier don't have to eat the cost for any major damage they cause to your home or a neighbor's, AND so you don't up paying if they get injured.

Getting them to sign a hold harmless agreement - regardless of how cleverly written it is - obviously won't make it any easier to make a contractor take responsibility for damages they cause. Therefore, its only use must be to protect the homeowner from being sued for bodily injury. You might just as well use a roll of toilet paper, for all the good it'll do.

For an uninsured contractor or handyman to collect anything from you for injuries they incurred while working at your house, they have to prove that they were due to your negligence. If they can't meet that burden of proof, you're not liable. If they are successful, it'll be because they were injured in a manner considered outside the scope of the tasks they were hired to perform. In that case, the plaintiff might just as well be your paperboy. You'll be held liable, and there's no hold harmless agreement in the world that would protect you.

Nobody sets foot on your property, with your knowledge, at their own risk. That's why we carry liability insurance.