Tour De France questions.

[TheRic]

Could someone explain to me in easy to understand terms how the points / times are determined? I thought the winner of the whole thing is who has the best total time. But I also have heard mentioned something about points.

It seems like everyone who finishes in a (some word that start with a "P", pen-something) gets all the same time. I think that is when a big group of them cross the line at the same time? Is there only one of these, or several in a single race? What determines it?

Got some more questions but figured I would get more confused if I ask too many.

[LCHIEN]

I'm sure Larry will have something to say,
but I think you are looking for the term "Stage", referring to the day's race. There are multiple stages making up the three week tour.
More info in "Description" section of the wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France

Mybe the P word you're looking for is peloton, That's a large group of riders bunched tightly together, usually the main group in a stage trying to take advantage of drafting.

[prlundberg]

The "P" word is peloton, which refers to the main group of riders.

Any riders finishing within a group get the same time.

The reason they do that is it would be pretty dangerous to have everybody sprinting at the finish line.

[LarryG]

The "P" word is "peloton," a French word meaning the main group, or pack.

There are several points systems in play. Each stage has either intermediate sprint locations, or climb summits, or both, that award bonus points to the first three riders who pass the various sprint points or climb summits. The sprinter points determines who wears, and ultimately wins, the Green Jersey. The climbing points determines who wears, and ultimately wins, the Polka-Dot Jersey. These are races-within-the-main race, put in some years ago to make things more interesting for both the riders and spectators. (The overall leader/winner wears/wins the Yellow Jersey, of course.)

There are also points awarded at the finish line of the various stages, and corresponding time bonuses (in seconds).

The Wikipedia link that Loring supplied will explain it all pretty well.

As regards the finishing time of the peloton ... as long as there is no discernible gap between the back wheel of one bicycle and the front wheel of the next, all riders who finish together get the same finishing time for the day. I would guess this is a holdover from the old days, before computerized scoring systems were available to track each rider as he crossed the line. There's also a rule that any rider who is involved in a crash within the last three kilometers (used to be one km, was changed a few years ago) of a stage gets the same time as the stage winner. This has already come into play at least twice in this year's Tour.

All the points and times are cumulative, over the three weeks of the race. The General Classification (overall) winner is whoever has the lowest cumulative time for the various stages. Green Jersey winner is whoever has the most sprint points for those stages that included sprints. Polka-Dot jersey winner (also known as "King Of The Mountains") is whoever has the most climbing points for those stages that had classified climbs.

Like baseball, bicycle racing can be confusing and seemingly boring until you begin to understand all the subtleties, at which point it can be endlessly fascinating.

[prlundberg]

EDIT: Nevermind, Larry's explanation of Jerseys is better.

[atgcpaul]

Could someone explain to me in easy to understand terms how the points / times are determined? I thought the winner of the whole thing is who has the best total time. But I also have heard mentioned something about points.

There are 4 important jerseys in the Tour and they are linked to the points race.
Yellow (fastest time overall), White (fastest rider under 25yo), Polka Dot (best
climber), and Green (best sprinter). I'm not really sure how they score the
Green jersey, but I'm sure someone will add what they know, too.

Paul

[LarryG]

Oh, I just spotted one other Q in Ric's post:

Is there only one of these, or several in a single race? What determines it?

Generally speaking, "peloton" is used the describe the largest group; and on most days, it will contain the overwhelming majority of the riders. It will sometimes split up into two or more sizable packs, however, as happened just yesterday. That's when Phil & Paul have to start getting inventive and talk about "the yellow jersey group" or "the Vinokourov group" or whatever.

Any small group of riders that goes "off the front," outrunning the main pack, is called the "breakaway." The breakaway might be as small as a lone rider, or it might be a pretty sizeable group. Usually, it's somewhere between three and maybe a dozen riders.

If the breakaway is fairly large and begins to split up, or if other, smaller groups race away from the following peloton to try to join up with the breakaway, these smaller individual groups are called "chases" or sometimes "pursuits" or something like that. That is, the riders out front are the breakaway, the next small group behind them is called Chase 1, after that comes Chase 2, etc. until you get back to the peloton.

Riders who can't keep up with any of these guys are said to be "off the back" or "dropped," an on-the-road placing with which I am personally quite familiar.

[JR]

In addition to Larry's fine explanation, it may be useful to view the prize money on offer: http://www.letour.fr/2007/TDF/COURSE/us/reglements.html

I understand the winners divide the prize money among their teammates.

For the details of the current standings for each classification, I visit velonews: http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/res...s/12849.0.html

[eddy merckx]

There is also an award for the last placed rider, called the "Lantern Rouge". Apparently in France, the Lantern Rouge is very popular because he suffers so much. Each day there is a time cutoff. The cutoff time is a percentage of the peleton's finishing time. If you don't make the cutoff, you're disqualified. The Lantern Rouge must sacrifice himself for his team leader by doing superhuman efforts at the front. He pulls off when he's exhausted and pretty much gets discarded. Then he must haul his wasted body over the mountain pass quickly enough to make the time cut.

They guys who do the grunt work for the favorites are called "domestiques". Their job is to do whatever the team director wants them to do, whether it is is sacrificing themselves or carrying water bottles to the big boys. They work like dogs and usually don't get a lot of recognition.

Item of note:

In the first year that he did the Tour, the real Eddy Merckx held the yellow jersey, the white jersey, the polka dot jersey and the green jersey.

Best wishes,
Eddy

[TheRic]

Thanks for the answers!! It cleared up many things, created a few more.
I did try reading Wikipedia first but I got lost, and more confused as I read it. There was more info there then I was looking for.

If your involved in a crash and get the time of the winner, I can see people further back crashing on purpose!! Surprised this does not happen more often.

Larry now I think I understand your location. Always wondered where that was.

Eddy you must have been one heck of a rider in your younger days.

[HarmsWay]

In the first year that he did the Tour, the real Eddy Merckx held the yellow jersey, the white jersey, the polka dot jersey and the green jersey.

Best wishes,
Eddy

Hey you didn't win the white because it didn't exist then (I just read that on wikipedia). Still an incredible feat though. And possibly drug free. Though we'll never know.

But on the topic of the domestiques, there have been some really good examples of high level riders doing domestique duty this tour. My favourite was Cancellara who a day or two after stepping out of the yellow jersey was regularly seen hauling water for the team. That's a team player you have to respect! Then after a few days of that comes back in stage 11 and comes a close 2nd to Robbie Hunter.

Bob

[drumpriest]

I personally am excited for today's time trial. For those who don't know, each rider goes over the course alone. It's a direct comparison of how fast each rider can cover the course.

When I raced I was pretty good at the TT, and at climbing. Basically I was good at suffering, it was a lot of fun. The peloton isn't the only group that gets the same time together, btw. Any group finishing together will get the same time. Often on big mountain stages the sprinters will group together into a group called the autobus. Riders who come in after a certain percentage of the stage winner are eliminated, but if a group larger than 40 come in together after the elimination time, the will NOT get eliminated.

Back in the day we had the broom wagon, a car at the back of the race, behind which the road would re-open. If you fell behind this car, you would get eliminated immediately.