Shooting at Va Tech

[TheRic]

I think the campus made (or whoever made the call(s) ) a decent call for what they knew at the time. It NOW looks like some decisions where made incorrectly. But you don't have the time to think for a couple of days on what to do, collect more info, way the pro and cons, look at what if's, etc.

It could be argued that if they would have canceled class, then the kids could have been milling around someplace and the crackpot could have killed them there. Then they would be criticized for allowing the students out, verses in classrooms where it's a more controlled environment.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and I think this case is a perfect example of it.

[430752]

Senseless

If the boy scout angle is true, then that's another black eye on the scouts.

Anyway, all I've got to say is how senseless this all is. Why college kids. Well, why anyone, but why kids? Its a crying shame, that's for sure.

curt j.

[dlminehart]

Nowadays, when every student and teacher has a cell phone, one has to assume that the police were informed within one minute of the first shots being fired . . . unless the shooter killed everyone within hearing distance, which seems pretty unlikely. The video footage I saw showed police hunkered down behind cars and trees while shooting was going on inside a building. Were they waiting for the shooter to run out of ammo, run out of targets, or just walk out with his hands up?

Not that I necessarily would have rushed the building myself . . . but, then, I'm not being paid a professional salary to "protect and defend," either.

[p8ntblr]

From what I've heard, after the shooting at the dorm they shut that place down but got reports that the gunman had left the campus and possibly the state. Which is why they didn't bother shutting down the whole campus. My question is if you thought he had left the campus then why shut the dorm down. If you shut the dorm down why not shut the campus down. But I'm not passing blame here (it's too early for that). These are just the questions that popped in my head when I was hearing the reports.

Also I hear they can't even identify the shooter because he shot his face off and had no ID on him.

[thestinker]

Reguardless of what he used...guns, knives, even hammers. When did people wig out and forget the value of human life. All I have heard is there was a shooting at VT. Don't know any details. But no matter the excuse...30+ people didn't deserve to die today. It wouldn't have stoped him from commiting his crime...but I wish CHL rights wern't checked at coleges and other places. Laws that prohibit self defnence don't discorage crime...just prevent law biding citizens from defending them selves.

RS

[430752]

political?

If CHL means what I think: concealed handgun laws, then perhaps this might be getting into political sphere. I dunno, I'm not the blog rozzers, just observing that we should keep it to the tragedy at hand and not into the conservative-pinko-capitalist-runnning dog -liberal-republican-civl rights- communist-fundamentalist-democrat-activist judge-evolutionist-revolutionary-for armed peace-change-oil baron-tree hugging argument.

curt j.

[Deadhead]

Regarding "lock down":

Most people don't realize just how large the campus is. 2,600 acres and more than 100 buildings. Earlier I was looking at pictures showing the police surrounding the coliseum (which is near West AJ, the dorm). Just behind a large section of academic buildings (including Norris Hall), there is a commuter parking lot. From that parking lot to the coliseum is a little less than 1 mile.

The first 9-1-1 call was placed around 7:15am. Within 15 minutes of that, there were probably literally thousands of students, faculty and staff walking around in that 1-mile area. Where do you lock them down? And for those who are locked out of "locked down" buildings, where do they go? Hike back across campus only to find their dorm "locked down"? Or get back into their cars to drive back to their apartments only to find all traffic has been halted?
This isn't like a high school were everyone is no more than 30 seconds away from a classroom. The drill field (which separates the academic quad from the quad where West AJ is) is about 700 feet across and 1200 feet long.

When the first shooting happened, the dorm was "locked down". Resident Advisors (RA's) went door-to-door.... to 450 rooms. There are another 200 rooms in East AJ.

The EMS responders (to the West AJ shootings) were interviewed last night on I think it was NBC. They did not know they were responding to a double shooting. They thought it was someone who had fallen.

Could officials have done more? Absolutely - that is ALWAYS the case. I just don't think people should be so quick to blame them without thinking through the logistics.

[gsmittle]

If CHL means what I think: concealed handgun laws, then perhaps this might be getting into political sphere. I dunno, I'm not the blog rozzers, just observing that we should keep it to the tragedy at hand and not into the conservative-pinko-capitalist-runnning dog -liberal-republican-civl rights- communist-fundamentalist-democrat-activist judge-evolutionist-revolutionary-for armed peace-change-oil baron-tree hugging argument.

curt j.

Wow, Curt, that has to be the longest hyphenated-running-phrase I've ever seen!

On a more serious note, and to play Devil's Advocate; an FBI agent I know told me this once: "Suppose I'm having lunch with my partner in a restaurant and some crazed gunman comes in and starts shooting. Several patrons draw their concealed weapons and return fire. In the resulting chaos, how do I figure out who the bad guys are? What if the patrons were part of the plot? How do I know that? What if it's 6 guys contracted to take out the first guy? I'll have to use deadly force to stop the shooting, but what if I kill innocent citizens who happen to have a gun in their hands?"

I'm not advocating one way or the other--just trying to see what it's like on the other side of the badge. Going for the one everyone's shooting at is not always the correct answer. You KNOW what the reaction will be if the cops shoot the wrong person.

g.

[crokett]

A less-gentle reminder than Thom's: There are other forums where you can discuss gun control. If you wish to have a discussion with someone, email or PM please.

[radhak]

A real pathetic way out of depression is suicide; and 'suicide by cop gun' is worse still. But I am never able to understand those who want to kill before being killed (or killing themselves, as here). What drives that...? Guess that's why I ain't a doctor...

Some years ago some guy in a car wanted to commit suicide by driving the wrong way down some interstate; he did crash into another car, and ended up killing the other driver, a mother, while he did not die. Go figure.

[Kristofor]

Could officials have done more? Absolutely - that is ALWAYS the case. I just don't think people should be so quick to blame them without thinking through the logistics.

I don't think it was really a blame issue. Just questions about why they didn't choose to do a lockdown. The reason they have stated that they didn't lock down campus was that they thought it was a domestic dispute and that the shooter had left campus. Additionally, they were interviewing a "person of interest" at the same time. I think those are fairly reasonable rationale for their decision. However, I suspect the standard response script will now be changed to say that a more significant response is required...

[Deadhead]

I'm sorry, I was really thinking more of the media response than anyone here.

I didn't see it, but I heard the students and guests at the Convocation today gave overwhelming support to the university president. Makes me proud!


'89

[Wood_workur]

it is really sad. And whats even worse is that the people who are complaining about how the police should have done more are the same people complaining about how somebody gets shot becuase he was breaking the law, and endangering others.

[Black wallnut]

Nowadays, when every student and teacher has a cell phone, one has to assume that the police were informed within one minute of the first shots being fired . . . unless the shooter killed everyone within hearing distance, which seems pretty unlikely. The video footage I saw showed police hunkered down behind cars and trees while shooting was going on inside a building. Were they waiting for the shooter to run out of ammo, run out of targets, or just walk out with his hands up?

Not that I necessarily would have rushed the building myself . . . but, then, I'm not being paid a professional salary to "protect and defend," either.

This whole story is tragic! I feel for the victims families and also the family of the dirtbag coward that commited these acts.

I think it is important to remember that LEO's first priority is to go home safe at the end of their shift. They are trained to not blindly rush into any situation. Doing so endangers lives. They did not cause it, could not have prevented it, and are not at fault for it! I doubt that they even had accurate intel on there only being one shooter as they responded. It was only hours later that they were able to identify the perp.

Most likely the dorm was locked down to protect the crime scene.

As others have stated how you would lock down a campus consisting of over 4 square miles with a very dense population is beyond comprehension! I'm sure those in leadership positions will have second thoughts for the rest of their lives about the decisions they made that morning. I do not believe I would want to be in their shoes.

[gsmittle]

A less-gentle reminder than Thom's: There are other forums where you can discuss gun control. If you wish to have a discussion with someone, email or PM please.

'Nuff said. My apologies.

g.