Which MiniDV camcorder is best for $225-325?

[Alex Franke]

I'm soooooo confused! I know I want MiniDV because of quality and shelf life, and I know I want to spend around $225 to $325.

I live the canon DSLR's, but I've heard horror stories about the motor noise in the camcorders. The Sony touch-screens seem like they would be annoying to use, but the image quality seems better. The rest are total unknowns...

Any advice or input out there would be *greatly* appreciated! These look slike the contenders...

Canon ZR800, 830, 850
JVC GRD350, 370, 750, 770, 796, etc.
Panasonic PV-GS80, 85
Samsung SC-D363, 365
Sony DCR-HC28, 38, 48

[sparkeyjames]

I don't know if you have Costco stores in your area or not. They do sell some brands of camcorders. The return policy cannot be beat. If you don't like it EVER take it back for a refund.
Great way to try out something to see if you like it or not.

[sacherjj]

I have an older Canon ZR model that I got only for use as a capture deck for my Canon GL2. I know the ZR models have had issues with motor sound in the mic, but you will get that with most small camcorders. Even with my GL2, I always use an after market mic.

[Alex Franke]

I read that the motor noise "got even worse" with Canon's newest ZR models, and curiously only their lowest end model (the 800) has a mic input. I tried it out at BestBuy to see if I could hear the motor noise, but it was just too darn noisy in there to hear anything.

The Sony picture looked sharper, and the Panazonic looked a bit yellower -- I don't know if that's just the LCD or actually what's getting recorded.

Yeah, I've heard that about Costco before... maybe it's time to join!

Thanks for the input so far!

[scorrpio]

I have a Sony TRV-22 (I think) that I bought back in January 2004, and I am very happy with it. It is comfortable, compact, and no motor noise on the video - I think it got circuitry to filter it out. I love the touchscreen - it is a great deal better than trying to navigate menus with various buttons. All the controls you may need for shooting are at your fingertips - touchscreen is really only needed for setup, menus, ans various advanced functionality. Capture ov video to PC via Firewire is effortless, and the camera can also work in VCR mode - connect it to any video source either via composite, S-video or Firewire, and it will record it.
And I think miniDV is better than DVD. miniDV stores video in raw, uncompressed format, whereas DVD cameras compress it. Especially if you plan to edit it, the raw miniDV footage will yield better quality. I also don't like hard drive solutions - these drives are usually small. A 30GB drive will not even fit 2 hours of raw. I suppose you can carry around an external Firewire hard drive and dump video to it as needed, but tapes, you just pop in a new one, write-protect the used one, label it, and there is no danger of accidentally losing that footage.

HC38 looks like it fits your budget very well, though I'd probably step up to HC48 - it can be found for around $370. It offers better resolution CCD, does widescreen, and if you decide to take a still picture (though no camcorder is very good at it), it goes to the memory stick, not to tape - a lot more convenient. Also, look at Sony comparison site, HC48 includes a remote, which is VERY handy.

[p8ntblr]

It's above your budget but I really like Panasonic's PV-GS series (PV-GS120, PV-GS300, etc). It's some of the few cameras that has 3CCD and still under $1000. My brother has the PV-GS320 and really like the quality of the video. Check out comparisons of many cameras at http://www.camcorderinfo.com

[Bruce Platt]

I originally bought the Canon Elura 100, I am in the next highest price range, I loved it. I use it for family outdoor activites, fell on it while skiing and broke the flip out lcd monitor. Luickily bought the no fault warrant at CC. The Elura 100 being discontinued was no longer available at the CC store , so I up graded to the Panasonic GS300.

This Camera is far superior, while the Canon was good, the 3 CCD in the panasonic gives far better color. And the stabilization system is mechanical and does not take away resolution when used. I have made some terrific family ski movies with it.

[Alex Franke]

I saw a Panasonic 3CCD camera (PV-GS320 3.1MP) for around $400 at Abe's of Maine -- maybe it's worth considering if the 3CCD camera are really do boost the quality.

Also, I noticed that the better cameras have zooms usually limited to about 10x, I bet this is because the cheaper cameras trade lense quality for zoom...

Does a 10x, 20x or 30/35x zoom really make a difference? (If you're not a voyeur, that is ) I mean, do you all really use the zoom that you have?

I've been reading a lot at camcorderinfo.com, but they seem a little behind on their 2007 model reviews. They seem to focus on the more expensive cameras.

The Elura 100 looked like a great camera, and camcorderinfo.com even said, "you can find them online for under $300", but it seems like people are really gobbling them up -- pricegrabber reports a best price of $500, and that for a refurbished one!

[sacherjj]

For video you get better quality with FEWER megapixels. This is because most video quality goes bad in low light. The small cameras that say they also do 2 megapixel still images mean they will STINK for low light. You will generally have a CCD of the same size. As the number of pixels go up, the size for each pixel goes down. It will get less light per pixel and need more over brightness in what you are shooting to get above the electronic noise. 3 CCD cameras is the same as increasing the size of each pixel size by 3. You also generally get better electronics to compliment the 3 CCD advantages. (Not te mention better color handling, etc.) Like a tool, it is cheaper to get a better camera now than buy then upgrade. The only way that makes sense is if you are shooting tons of video for filmmaking, etc and capturing a bunch. Then using the cheap camera as a capture deck saves wear on the real camera.

As for zoom, only look at OPTICAL zoom. Digital zoom means nothing and should be turned off. It is "guessing" the picture by looking at a smaller size of the sensor and then digitally filling in the rest. You can do this in Photoshop by cropping out the center of a picture and then blowing it up. It will get fuzzy and look like crap. Optical zoom is the only zoom that doesn't kill video quality.

[Bruce Platt]

good points, one of the advantages of the Elura 100 was that it had a larger CCD than the ZR series.

[LCHIEN]

most people with consumer cameras love the zooms but can't use them effectively. Zooms over about 10x shake uncontrollably (due to user motion) or blur which is apparent when the video is viewed later. It makes my wife nauseous. I guess cameras with the motion compensators help but not entirely. Zooms can be useful when a Good tripod is used (can't use a cheap one for 20x!) and most people should really use a tripod for more than 3x zooming.
Also when zooming at great magnification the apparent quality goes down because of air/thermal currents and general haze at long distances. Obviously some things are not always possible but too many people use long zooms when they should just get closer.

[dale]

We wanted a cheap-ish camcarder to send with our daughter on a recent band trip to Ireland (in case something happened to it--like her nice Canon digital camera that didn't make it home). We found the Elura 100 at Ultimate Electronics for about $330. She got home late last night, did some laundry, and headed out again today with the Orchestra to record some music at Disneyland. I won't know how much we like the camera until she gets home Saturday.

I can hardly wait to see!

[gsmittle]

I bought a Canon ZR700 at Sam's for my acting classes. I paid around $300 for the kit which included an extra battery, a too-small case (too small for all the junk I try to pack in it), remote, charger, and every cable you need except FireWire. Go figure.

I like using the remote for class--I can sit at a table with my critique sheets, etc. and pause the recording between scenes.

In the classroom I do hear the motor noise a bit (I also hear every fart, sneeze, and whispered conversation), but in a normal environment I don't notice the motor noise. I've recorded dress rehearsals in the theatre and haven't heard the motor. My classroom has a tile floor and cinder block walls, which may be a factor.

Whatever camera you choose, get a GOOD tripod, not a $20 cheapie from Wally World. Yes, it will set you back $100 or more, but you'll thank yourself every time you watch your footage. A monopod is a good investment, too.

Happy shopping!

g.

[Alex Franke]

Hey all, I really appreciate all this great input! We're leaning toward the Panasonic GS320 now, which is the 3CCD camera for around $400.

I understand the whole optical/digital zoom thing, and we're only considering optical zooms. But there's a bit difference in optical zoom -- the cheaper cameras go up to about 40x optical, would I'm guessing would only really be useful if I were a voyeur. The GS320 has a 10x optical zoom. I'm guessing that would be sufficient in most cases.

I've read *great* thinks about the Elura 100 -- problem is that everyone else has, too, and it's become a bit of a commodity -- over $500 now, so it's out of my price range.

Guy Bruner (camcorderinfo) told me that the gs320 is basically the gs300 without the mic input, which might be nice, but I really don't need it. (the gs300 sells for $575 now!) He also said, "there are no other camcorders in this price range that will be better in low light." and he seems to know his stuff, too.

Thanks again!

[jziegler]

Just doing a quick look, and it looks like newegg.com has stock on the Elura 100 for $329.99. I have ordered from them several times, they're good. A bit over your range, but very close, and less than the Panasonic.

Of course, 3CCDs are better than 1.

Whatever you get, let us know. I've been watching this stuff, my wife is a music teacher and I need to tape her student recitals, and the old VHS-c camcorder that I borrow from her dad pretty much sucks.

Jim