australian (and southern hemisphere confusion)

[LCHIEN]

I just read this thread now, and I'm truely surprised and in no means being sarcastic ... but I was taught this stuff back in public school around Grade 6 and thought this was just common knowledge about the hemispheres and there related seasons and all ...

I'm guessing that this it could be because besides Canada, countries like Australia, New Zealand, Britian, South Africa, etc, are also part of "The Commonwealth of Nations", hence we are taught more about other countries than maybe in the US ... I dunno.

Learn something new all the time I guess ...

Well, I know that its the warm season south of the equator and all, its just a question of terminology.

What threw me was that the winter solstice is the winter solstice. You'd expect wintertime when the winter solstice occurs. But it comes in summertime apparently... in Australia.

Just North American/European scientific arrogance, probably.

[JSCOOK]

Well, I know that its the warm season south of the equator and all, its just a question of terminology.

What threw me was that the winter solstice is the winter solstice. You'd expect wintertime when the winter solstice occurs. But it comes in summertime apparently... in Australia.

Just North American/European scientific arrogance, probably.

Ya I never really got why that was, just one of those things that has always been that way AFAIK ...

(They probably think it's weird the way our winter or summer solstice is too when you think about it ... eh, Rod?)

[RodKirby]

I really try not to think about the esoteric stuff

[Russianwolf]

Ya I never really got why that was, just one of those things that has always been that way AFAIK ...

(They probably think it's weird the way our winter or summer solstice is too when you think about it ... eh, Rod?)

Actually it's not unusual for laymen to switch the terms to fit (IE Southern Winter Soltice coming in June), but for the Astonomy community they needed a standard so that they could track the objects. So to them the Winter Solstice always has the earth pointed in one specific direction in space no matter which hemisphere you are in. I guess since there are more scientific communities in the north, they won the vote on which one became the standard.

As far as what I was taught in grade school. I was taught that when is warm here its cold there, and so when it's Summer here it's Winter there. Then I asked about the equatorial countries and Antartica and the teacher shot me a dirty look.

[leehljp]

I can't remember the number of times that I have USA people ask me if it is winter in Japan when it is summer in the USA!

I may be too critical on this issue but I knew what a globe and seasons were in the 1st grade. Growing up on a small farm, I was accutely aware of temps, seasons etc. Life/living/farming often depended on it.

NOW FOR A second strange inquiry: Ask someone from the British Commonwealth or Europe, and then someone from the USA to write the numerals for:
1 Million
1 Billion

. . . then compare the numerical responses.


This issue came up when I moved to Japan and started reading the international English news papers. I remembered a time of slight confusion in the 9th or 10th grade over the differences but never reconciled the differences or why I had the problem. It was much later that I realized That I had an elderly (in her 60's) 2nd/3rd grade teacher that taught the "proper" way. At that time (early 50's) I had no reason to use "millions" or "billions" but in high school with algera, chemistry, physics I started. Briefly I was confused over what a million and what a billion were but accepted the system.

Only when I moved to Japan 20+ years ago did I figure the whole thing out.

[Russianwolf]

I can't remember the number of times that I have USA people ask me if it is winter in Japan when it is summer in the USA!

I may be too critical on this issue but I knew what a globe and seasons were in the 1st grade. Growing up on a small farm, I was accutely aware of temps, seasons etc. Life/living/farming often depended on it.

NOW FOR A second strange inquiry: Ask someone from the British Commonwealth or Europe, and then someone from the USA to write the numerals for:
1 Million
1 Billion

. . . then compare the numerical responses.

you mean the transposition of the commas and decimals? I did European accounting for 3 years.

I have a cartoon in my office of someone holding up a sign saying "No more war" "bring our troops home" wrapped around a picture of Louisiana. I'm guessing Geography wasn't his strong suit.

[backpacker85]

....but "the earth" doesn't point either towards or away from the sun; one of it's poles will point "towards", but then the other one is pointing "away". I guess the pole we live nearest to is considered "the earth"

Which brings up another question.....are people's globes who live in the southern hemisphere mounted with the south pole at the top?

(just kidding.....years of celestial navigation at sea taught me the truth)

[leehljp]

you mean the transposition of the commas and decimals? I did European accounting for 3 years.

A billion in the English writing have more 3 more zeros as compared to the US. Actually, I think due to recent internationalization, Euro and need for common units, plus the internet, the old definitions are being edged out more in line with the way the US and some other countries use them. I haven't seen a reference to the British way in the past in newspapers here for the past 6 to 8 years, but I did occasionally up until that time. I was taught the British method as a kid in elementary school in the deep south - in the early 50's.

Here are the definitions that I was refering to:

A "billion" is a thousand million in the United States or a million times million in Great Britain.

(in Britain) Billion = one million million, 1,000,000,000,000
Commas placed by me (Hank)

(in the United States) Billion = One thousand million: 1,000,000,000

[Russianwolf]

A billion in the English writing have more 3 more zeros as compared to the US. Actually, I think due to recent internationalization, Euro and need for common units, plus the internet, the old definitions are being edged out more in line with the way the US and some other countries use them. I haven't seen a reference to the British way in the past in newspapers here for the past 6 to 8 years, but I did occasionally up until that time. I was taught the British method as a kid in elementary school in the deep south - in the early 50's.

Here are the definitions that I was refering to:

A "billion" is a thousand million in the United States or a million times million in Great Britain.

(in Britain) Billion = one million million, 1,000,000,000,000
Commas placed by me (Hank)

(in the United States) Billion = One thousand million: 1,000,000,000

So a Britian Billion is a US Trillion.

What I was refering to is 1 Million in US is 1,000,000.00 but in Europe its 1.000.000,00

[Russianwolf]

....but "the earth" doesn't point either towards or away from the sun; one of it's poles will point "towards", but then the other one is pointing "away". I guess the pole we live nearest to is considered "the earth"

Which brings up another question.....are people's globes who live in the southern hemisphere mounted with the south pole at the top?

(just kidding.....years of celestial navigation at sea taught me the truth)

Well if you want to get REALLY technical. The earth's tilt stays pretty constant (that's why the north pole points more or less to the north star), the actual change is the position of the earth around the sun. So at position A the north pole is tilted away from the sun but at position C (180 degrees around the sun) the North pole is tilted towards the sun. So the reality is that more about our position in space relative to the sun.

[430752]

i get it

I get the conundrum, being that is winter simply a facet of it being cold, and summer warm? Which may be common language usage, but a more technical definition would be from winter solsitce to vernal equinox, terms created hundreds of years ago by dead (northern) astronomers and thus being the same globally. Therefore, in the north it makes sense to say winter follows the winter solstice, but sure seems odd when the southern hemi says their summer begins with the winter solstice.

Now, is it summer in Japan when it is winter here? I doubt it, but it could easily and every year be "spring" in japan when "winter" in the USA.


How? the international date line! one day ahead is japan.

and, for further condundrums, why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?

okay, I couldn't resist.

curt j.