2007 BT3Central 2x6 Challenge?

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  • Thom2
    Resident BT3Central Research Ass.
    • Jan 2003
    • 1786
    • Stevens, PA, USA.
    • Craftsman 22124

    #16
    Technically, the legs on the table in question were not actually turned. They were done with a router and a Craftsman router crafter.

    I don't see a nice way around this in terms of making rules, with proper jigs, round legs can be done on a router table and I don't feel that these should be judged in a 'turned' category.

    Limiting tools is gonna be a tough scenario too, I personally don't see how to set guidelines. In addition to that, I really feel it's the craftsman that designs and builds the project, the tools are simply an aid. Anything can be done in several different ways, a specialized tool only makes it easier to accomplish.
    If it ain't broke.. don't fix it!!!... but you can always 'hop it up'
    **one and only purchaser of a BT3C official thong**

    Comment

    • Ken Massingale
      Veteran Member
      • Dec 2002
      • 3862
      • Liberty, SC, USA.
      • Ridgid TS3650

      #17
      I definitely agree with Lee on requiring a photo journal of the project build. Also, think that it should be 8 bd. ft., not necessarily softwood or from a 2 by 6.

      Comment

      • Black wallnut
        cycling to health
        • Jan 2003
        • 4715
        • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
        • BT3k 1999

        #18
        Originally posted by Stytooner
        To view all of the entrys you may need to change the show threads from the "beginning".
        Donate to my Tour de Cure


        marK in WA and Ryobi Fanatic Association State President ©

        Head servant of the forum

        ©

        Comment

        • Tundra_Man
          Veteran Member
          • Jan 2003
          • 1589
          • Sioux Falls, SD, USA.
          • Ryobi BT3100

          #19
          I think overall the last contest went pretty well. I think we should stick with a construction grade 8' 2x6. Coming up with a useful project is part of the challenge, hence the name.

          The biggest change I would like to see is that this year I would like to win.
          Terry

          Life's too short to play an ordinary guitar: Tundra Man Custom Guitars

          Comment

          • TheRic
            • Jun 2004
            • 1912
            • West Central Ohio
            • bt3100

            #20
            Originally posted by Stytooner

            Be warned that the start of some of those threads really start inside somewhere. One started on page 4 of a 4 page thread. What you first see is the end to another thread. I suspect this had something to do with the move to this bulletin board.
            Ric

            Plan for the worst, hope for the best!

            Comment

            • Russianwolf
              Veteran Member
              • Jan 2004
              • 3152
              • Martinsburg, WV, USA.
              • One of them there Toy saws

              #21
              Originally posted by Thom2
              Technically, the legs on the table in question were not actually turned. They were done with a router and a Craftsman router crafter.

              I don't see a nice way around this in terms of making rules, with proper jigs, round legs can be done on a router table and I don't feel that these should be judged in a 'turned' category.

              Limiting tools is gonna be a tough scenario too, I personally don't see how to set guidelines. In addition to that, I really feel it's the craftsman that designs and builds the project, the tools are simply an aid. Anything can be done in several different ways, a specialized tool only makes it easier to accomplish.
              Actually that was done with a Legacy Mill which runs upwards of $3k. You can do the same with the router crafter, but it's not nearly as easy/accurate as what those legacy mills look like.


              I can see catergorizing it like this

              Class 1: Basic tools (Table Saw, Band Saw, Drill press, Router, etc.)
              Class 2: Turning tools (Lathe, etc.)
              Class 3: Specialty tools (Milling machine, woodrat, compucarvers, etc.)
              Mike
              Lakota's Dad

              If at first you don't succeed, deny you were trying in the first place.

              Comment

              • BigguyZ
                Veteran Member
                • Jul 2006
                • 1818
                • Minneapolis, MN
                • Craftsman, older type w/ cast iron top

                #22
                I know I'm still a newbie here, but I agree that those with the better shops have an edge regardless or the individual's creativity. Hey- I'd love to have a shop that costs $10,000+ don't get me wrong. But don't pretend that there's not a difference. Maybe there can be a catagory for new WWers? Those that have been doing this for less than a year? I'll probably attempt something either way, but I'd feel like I had a better chance if I wasn't going against those who not only had more experience, but those who have the tools to match.

                Comment

                • crokett
                  The Full Monte
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 10627
                  • Mebane, NC, USA.
                  • Ryobi BT3000

                  #23
                  It should stay 2x6 only. No other woods allowed. Hence the challenge. If we want a separate contest to allow any kind of wood, that is fine with me. Do the guys with better shops have an advantage? Sure.

                  They'd have the same shop and same advantage if it were a contest using hardwoods. I mean, for the shops like mine with no planer/jointer you either buy surfaced wood, work around it in your shop or take it some place to be surfaced. What is stopping you from doing the same thing with a 2x6?
                  David

                  The chief cause of failure in this life is giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment.

                  Comment

                  • LarryG
                    The Full Monte
                    • May 2004
                    • 6693
                    • Off The Back
                    • Powermatic PM2000, BT3100-1

                    #24
                    I agree with David. The 2x6 is the equalizer: a guy may have a big fancy shop full of expensive tools, but what can he do with them when the starting point is a lowly construction-grade 2x6?

                    If you have a lot of categories and a lot of restrictions and a lot of qualifiers, you end up with a situation in which basically everyone wins (in his own particular, narrow-defined category). Which proves little or nothing.
                    Larry

                    Comment

                    • Russianwolf
                      Veteran Member
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 3152
                      • Martinsburg, WV, USA.
                      • One of them there Toy saws

                      #25
                      Originally posted by LarryG
                      I agree with David. The 2x6 is the equalizer: a guy may have a big fancy shop full of expensive tools, but what can he do with them when the starting point is a lowly construction-grade 2x6?

                      If you have a lot of categories and a lot of restrictions and a lot of qualifiers, you end up with a situation in which basically everyone wins (in his own particular, narrow-defined category). Which proves little or nothing.
                      Then why have Turned and Non-turned catagories?

                      Obviously there is a thought that turned work has some kind of advantage over non-turned work (or vice versa), so why should it be any diffrerent than some of these other specialty tools that the average amatuer shop doesn't have?

                      If you restrict the catagories to basic tools and jigs you've made in your shop, then you level the playing field.
                      Mike
                      Lakota's Dad

                      If at first you don't succeed, deny you were trying in the first place.

                      Comment

                      • Black wallnut
                        cycling to health
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 4715
                        • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
                        • BT3k 1999

                        #26
                        My thought behind the different categories is to maximize participation. Last time there were many entrants but much fewer entries IIRC. The work from all entries was just stunning.
                        Donate to my Tour de Cure


                        marK in WA and Ryobi Fanatic Association State President ©

                        Head servant of the forum

                        ©

                        Comment

                        • ChrisD
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 881
                          • CHICAGO, IL, USA.

                          #27
                          I totally agree with David and Larry on using construction-grade 2x6 as the medium. I think that is the essence of the contest.

                          However, I'm not sure about having different categories. I think the entries in the last contest were pretty clear-cut between turned and non-turned. But one can make a table where an intricately carved rectangular top has significantly more material (boardfoot-wise) than its four turned legs. The challenge is how do you define each category with an objective set of rules.

                          I think creativity is creativity and one category is all that's needed.

                          Just my $0.02 (or barely).
                          The war against inferior and overpriced furniture continues!

                          Chris

                          Comment

                          • LarryG
                            The Full Monte
                            • May 2004
                            • 6693
                            • Off The Back
                            • Powermatic PM2000, BT3100-1

                            #28
                            Mike: In a wide-open, run-what-ya-brung contest, Turned and Non-Turned would not be separate. For the 2005 contest, I was one of several who lobbied for those two divisions based on the fact that most "conventional" woodworking projects are rectilinear whereas turned projects are, well, round. Joinery can be cut by hand or machine but any kind of turning requires a lathe; it's still woodworking (as is, say, carving, or bandsaw boxes) but its a rather specialized form of woodworking. Granted, complications arise when turned elements are incorporated into "conventional" projects.

                            Mark: Well, there is that. Many folks might decline to enter just because they think they are outclassed in terms of tooling, or experience, or both. I just don't think the contest needs to degenerate to the "Best Non-Turned Hardwood Project By A Newbie (Hand-Cut Dovetails Division)" level.
                            Larry

                            Comment

                            • Thom2
                              Resident BT3Central Research Ass.
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 1786
                              • Stevens, PA, USA.
                              • Craftsman 22124

                              #29
                              Mike, I stand corrected, I had forgot that was actually the Legacy Mill that he owned. My views are still the same about the craftsmanship tho'.

                              As far as turned and non-turned ...... I think those categories were actually created to keep kwgeorge in his own category and to give the rest of us poor flatworkers a fightin' chance in our own category.

                              We can do away with the turned and non-turned categories, but we'd have to change it to ....

                              1.) kwgeorge
                              2.) NOT kwgeorge

                              If it ain't broke.. don't fix it!!!... but you can always 'hop it up'
                              **one and only purchaser of a BT3C official thong**

                              Comment

                              • jseklund
                                Established Member
                                • Aug 2006
                                • 428

                                #30
                                What do I know? since I didn't even know what the 2X6 challenge was until 10 minutes ago- But here are my thoughts:

                                1. 2X6 Construction lumber- who has money to pay the entry fee and then buy mahogany? haha. Lots of good things can be built with lower end wood....

                                2. Better tools are an advantage.

                                3. But so is more skill. Someone with few tools and more skill can beat someone with a full shop and little skill.

                                4. Desire and confidence are the great equalizers! Just because you're new doesn't mean you can't do great things with time, effort and belief.

                                5. It seems to me that the idea is to show that something can be made from seemingly nothing- or to reiterate someone else's analogy- make a diamond from coal. Isn't this a big factor for us being in woodworking? Isn't this what we really strive to do- achieve that project that seemed so far away? Stop whining and go do it!

                                6. "Rock isn't about winning. It's about putting on a killer show. One great show can change the world!!" -Dewey Finn (Mr. Schneebly) (Jack Black)

                                Keep it simple, and let's do something to help the site, the community, and put on a great show!
                                F#$@ no good piece of S#$% piece of #$@#% #@$#% #$@#$ wood! Dang. - Me woodworking

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