2007 BT3Central 2x6 Challenge?

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  • crokett
    The Full Monte
    • Jan 2003
    • 10627
    • Mebane, NC, USA.
    • Ryobi BT3000

    #31
    Originally posted by jseklund
    3. But so is more skill. Someone with few tools and more skill can beat someone with a full shop and little skill.
    Yup. As regards to turned and non-turned...

    I don't need a jointer/planer to turn out a flat table. It surely makes it easier but it is not super-critical. I can do it with the tools I have on hand with no special mods.

    I really can't produce turned work without a lathe (at least not intricate work). I could make a jig for a router, but then I've basically made a lathe.
    David

    The chief cause of failure in this life is giving up what you want most for what you want at the moment.

    Comment

    • dkhoward
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2003
      • 873
      • Lubbock, Texas, USA.
      • bt3000

      #32
      I gotta agree that I thought the original challenge was great. The use of construction grade lumber keeps the focus on creativity and skill. The turned and non-turned categories allow two different approaches to the challenge. I mean, how do you judge a bowl turned from a cut down and then glues up blank against a table or other piece of furniture. I think the $10 entry fee should stand on its own as the challenge imposes more work on the the Admins and Mods.

      So my vote is go with what we had last time and let the chips (ans sawdust) fall where they may.
      Dennis K Howard
      www.geocities.com/dennishoward
      "An elephant is nothing more than a mouse built to government specifications." Robert A Heinlein

      Comment

      • Stytooner
        Roll Tide RIP Lee
        • Dec 2002
        • 4301
        • Robertsdale, AL, USA.
        • BT3100

        #33
        I think you guys are right. I think we hashed through all the details of the contest last year. There are many more reasons to keep this a standard 2x6 rather than any hardwood. The remaining question is concerning the entry fee.
        To fee or not to fee.

        It is of course, up to you, Sam. Members can become Patrons by entering in the contest for the $10 entry fee. Should Patrons have to fee up as well? My gut feeling is yup. The extra cash may come in handy during the year and if not, as a little stipend for our Uber Meister.

        Sam? Others? What say ye?

        It goes without saying that I will support as well, by providing some of the prizes if wanted.
        Last edited by Stytooner; 01-26-2007, 08:03 PM.
        Lee

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        • Thalermade
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2002
          • 791
          • Ohio
          • BT 3000

          #34
          Originally posted by Black wallnut
          My thought behind the different categories is to maximize participation. Last time there were many entrants but much fewer entries IIRC. The work from all entries was just stunning.

          Stunning? thank you very much!!!

          Certainly an understatement for most and an over statement for me.

          Keep it simple folks. Lets worry more about folks particpating and less about rules for "winning".

          Now, let's see, what is Sears return policy on that new CompuCarve.....

          Have fun

          Russ

          Comment

          • BasementDweller
            Forum Newbie
            • Dec 2004
            • 95
            • PA.
            • nt3100.001

            #35
            I think I joined this board shortly after the last challenge, reading it though and looking at the jounals has inspired me for a long time. I agree construction grade lumber (2x6) is a really neat idea. I do kinda like the one idea to add a section to the two sections from last year (turned, non-turned) that is; special equipment. For compucarv and other computer aided gizmos. I'll agree a nice journal or picture diary should be included with submision, again I read those sections two and three times and followed all the outside links to see how people did what they did. It was amazing.

            No matter what, I'll be signing up! So you can make the rules whatever you want! No matter to me, cause I wont win, but I'm really looking forward to the experience of making something out of a 2x6. One of those things you'd just never do if you weren't pushed!
            Click. . . Hey, turn the lights back on! I'm still down here!
            http://www.teraflax.com

            Comment

            • Ed62
              The Full Monte
              • Oct 2006
              • 6022
              • NW Indiana
              • BT3K

              #36
              Originally posted by Stytooner
              Members can become Patrons by entering in the contest for the $10 entry fee. Should Patrons have to fee up as well? My gut feeling is yup.
              That sounds as if patrons (which I'm not yet, but will be before long) would have to pay twice. It's very unlikely that I'll take part in the challenge, but it doesn't seem right that I could become a patron AND enter the challenge for $10.00 if existing members would have to pay for entering. Just something to think about.

              Sam, I'm short of cash right now, but you'll be getting mine before long. This site is more than worth the small contribution to help keep it going. Thanks for the opportunity for us to belong to such a great place.

              Ed
              Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

              For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

              Comment

              • Thalermade
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2002
                • 791
                • Ohio
                • BT 3000

                #37
                Originally posted by Ed62
                That sounds as if patrons (which I'm not yet, but will be before long) would have to pay twice. It's very unlikely that I'll take part in the challenge, but it doesn't seem right that I could become a patron AND enter the challenge for $10.00 if existing members would have to pay for entering. Just something to think about.

                Sam, I'm short of cash right now, but you'll be getting mine before long. This site is more than worth the small contribution to help keep it going. Thanks for the opportunity for us to belong to such a great place.

                Ed

                Ed I understand your point of view, but I would like to add this point of view.
                The challenge is an option. It is an option to which the "entry fee"
                is used to support this forum.

                There will be several people volunteering their time to judge the entries.
                If the challenge is completely open, the judges could easily be overwhelmed by a high number of entries.

                As I plan to donate some more money this year, (I am reducing magazine subscriptions and shifting the money to support online resources. Plus by using the power of local libraries and inter-library loan (article copying)., if I need something from a magazine I can most likely get it with only a short waiting period.



                have fun
                Russ

                Comment

                • jseklund
                  Established Member
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 428

                  #38
                  Crockett- Your point is well taken and valid. I'm not against two categories, and if there is going to be more than one, Turned/Non-Turned seemes to be the two to go with. However, I believe my point still stands- you can make a killer piece regardless of what you have. Just because something is turned, doesn't make it better than a non-turned item. That's just my opinion, although it may seem naive....

                  I think the point is- let's take what we have, as little or as much as that may be and make something of it. If you have a lathe and want to turn something, great. If I don't, I'll have to get creative in my flatwork- and we'll both have some nice stuff in the end. Or at least, you probably will- I'll have a lot of scrap wood to be creative with after! haha, j/k.

                  As far as the entry fee/categories- I agree with most everyone- participation is the key. The two categories are probably good, and anything to get participation up should be good. I know it's been suggested to have a $10 entry fee- and I don't want to price anyone out (I'm not cash rich right now myself!)- but how about $15? You could do $15 for non-patrons, and $5 for patrons?

                  In the end, I think the patron/non-patron issue is maybe over-thinking. If you're not a patron, you pay your money and suddenly you ARE a patron. If you are already a patron- you could take the entry fee into account when you make your donation- or wait and use the entry fee as your donation. However, if patrons must pay for the entry fee- will they all wait to enter- thus reducing cash flow early on for Sam?

                  For instance, if you were going to donate $20 just to donate it, you could donate $10 now and use $10 for the entry fee. If patrons don't pay, then you would just donate $20 now. I think it really just becomes semantics in the end....
                  F#$@ no good piece of S#$% piece of #$@#% #@$#% #$@#$ wood! Dang. - Me woodworking

                  Comment

                  • billwmeyer
                    Veteran Member
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 1858
                    • Weir, Ks, USA.
                    • BT3000

                    #39
                    Sounds like a good time for a poll question. What ever is decided works for me. I was amazed at the creativity from last year. I thought the turned and non-turned categories worked well. I guess there could be an added category for hardwoods. It doesn't matter, the more entries, the less comments on my poor work, if I get it done. The whole point is to show members creativite, create excitement, and most importantly, give financial support to Sam.
                    Bill
                    "I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in."-Kenny Rogers

                    Comment

                    • Stytooner
                      Roll Tide RIP Lee
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 4301
                      • Robertsdale, AL, USA.
                      • BT3100

                      #40
                      Right, Bill. A poll might help Sam make a better decision.
                      My thinking was that I wanted less confusion on what everyone's status actually is at the time of entry. I know that Sam spent a lot of time trying to keep that updated.
                      I don't want to price anyone out either. I also don't think double taxing on Patrons is the best solution. It becomes a timing issue as well. Will we have hit the annual goal by the time we start accepting 2x6 fee's? Probably so. It's a relatively low fee this year. Then again with subscription payments, all the money isn't there yet. I think it's always prudent as well, top have a little cash in the bank if needed. That's the fastest and easiest way to fix problems, should they arise. If there is extra money left at the end of the year, it can't be a bad thing.

                      So there are valid reasons for and against feeing Patrons to enter the 2x6 challenge. I think I will set up a poll just to get an idea where majority thought lies on this.
                      Lee

                      Comment

                      • kwgeorge
                        Veteran Member
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 1419
                        • Alvin, TX, USA.

                        #41
                        Well if y’all don’t mind I think I will add a thought or two in this discussion.

                        First off, Thom

                        Now that I have that out of my system on to the entry fee, I would think that the entry fees would go towards prizes so I think everyone who enters should pay. I don’t however think that Patrons should pay the same as non forum donators. So as it has been previously suggested I think the Patrons should pay one amount and non patrons pay a higher amount on the entry fee. I also believe that the contest should be limited to people that are active posters and participants in this forum.

                        Now from those that know me know I am totally for the creation of a photo journal of the project. Not only do I find them interesting but they also add quite a bit of insight into peoples thought process and how they deal with different things.

                        As far as the two categories turned and non-turned I really did not understand the point of that the first time. This is basically a Flat Wood forum so why not just say one category with turnings allowed but can not be the focus of the piece. Maybe 15% of the piece or even not allowed at all if people feel competing with turning is not fair. This kind of is the same idea behind the use of expensive specialized machines such as that computerized carving machine and the Legacy Mill I guess.

                        In any case the thought of this contest coming back excited me! It was quite the challenge to create something from a 2X6 what with the planning, designing and creating processes. Seeing what other people did was truly amazing and I totally look forward to this.

                        Ken

                        Comment

                        • Brian G
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 993
                          • Bloomington, Minnesota.
                          • G0899

                          #42
                          Whoo-hoo! I'm in, again.

                          When I participated last time, I had no grand illusions. I ended up with a nice piece of furniture that still is in use. For me, the benefit of participating went far beyond the prospect of winning. The planning and execution taught me more about getting the most out of the 2 x 6, within the constraint of the tools I had.

                          I had to think differently. I had a number of ideas for a project, and several times I'd get down to the very last one or two pieces before I realized that I just couldn't squeeze them out of what I had available. At the time, I didn't have a bandsaw, so I had to plan and figure out how to resaw with just the BT, and how even a thin kerf blade (versus bandsaw) really affected the amount of usable stock available. I kept every offcut, and only when I was close to done did I realize I had enough left to make a drawer. That was a nice surprise.

                          Participating also caused me to look at a board in a way I ordinarily wouldn't. I had to envision how a part would look and whether the orientation of the grain would enhance or detract from the appearance. I thought about ideal proportions (golden rectangle), form, function, and whether there appeared to be any interesting aspects of the board that I could exploit. Then I had to learn more about finishing the project. . . avoiding blotching, enhancing the grain, etc.

                          Okay, enough sap! Some thoughts for the current contest:

                          1. I have the benefit of a basement shop, so the time of year/season doesn't matter to me. I think it would be great to maximize participation, so perhaps late summer/early fall (e.g., August/September) for completion would meet the timeframe where most people could have enough comfortable shop-degree days to get something done. Whatever the date, please stick to it. I admit to being a little frustrated last time that I (and others) met the initial timeframe, but then it was extended.

                          2. If there are going to be two categories (i.e., turned and non-turned, whatever either means) then I think it would be good to have separate voting for each category initially, and then the winners of each category would go to a final. Last time, each member got one vote overall.

                          3. Fees. . .well, as a Silver patron, I'm okay with a $10 fee. I wouldn't be opposed at all to exempting Gold, Platinum, and monthly subscribers from the fee. Their financial contributions are greater than the sum of the Silver Patron + entry fee.

                          4. I like the idea of the picture story, although that assumes everyone has access to a digital camera. A good narrative should be fine, as well. I felt that the 100-word description was too restrictive.

                          5. I favor allowing cedar or redwood (for outdoor projects) as long as it meets the 2" x 6" x 8' restriction.

                          Most important, HAVE FUN!
                          Last edited by Brian G; 01-28-2007, 01:20 PM. Reason: Once again, perfection eludes me.
                          Brian

                          Comment

                          • Russianwolf
                            Veteran Member
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 3152
                            • Martinsburg, WV, USA.
                            • One of them there Toy saws

                            #43
                            Hey guys, I was just thinking of one other material that we should consider at optional.

                            Instead of a 2x6x96 we could allow a 24x48x3/4 sheet of either Sandply or Birchply.

                            I think both would be in keeping with the original intent (turning 8 BF of construction material into something "nice") and open a few more options for some "designers".

                            What say Ye?
                            Mike
                            Lakota's Dad

                            If at first you don't succeed, deny you were trying in the first place.

                            Comment

                            • Tequila
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 684
                              • King of Prussia, PA, USA.

                              #44
                              I didn't participate in the last 2x6 challenge, but here's my opinions for this one.

                              1) Construction grade 2x6 only. That's what makes it a challenge and at leasts puts some kind of equalizer out there. If there's enough interest, maybe we can do a 1/2 sheet challenge later in the year.
                              2) Pay vs Non-Pay. How about @10 for non-patrons and $5 for patrons? Or maybe $10 for everybody but only patrons get to vote?
                              3) Categories - my understanding was that turned + non-turned just allowed for more winners. I'm all for keeping it simple, but 2 or 3 categories is a good thing in my opinion.
                              -Joe

                              Comment

                              • Black wallnut
                                cycling to health
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 4715
                                • Ellensburg, Wa, USA.
                                • BT3k 1999

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Tequila
                                I didn't participate in the last 2x6 challenge, but here's my opinions for this one.

                                2) Pay vs Non-Pay. How about @10 for non-patrons and $5 for patrons? Or maybe $10 for everybody but only patrons get to vote?
                                IMHO that would only be fair if entry into the contest was not a means to gaining patron status so to be more fair just charge everyone $10 with no Patron Status granted or $10 and grant Patron status. Either way the cost and benefits should be the same patron v non-patron.

                                Originally posted by Tequila
                                3) Categories - my understanding was that turned + non-turned just allowed for more winners. I'm all for keeping it simple, but 2 or 3 categories is a good thing in my opinion.
                                The only way to ensure a higher number of winners is to have two divisions plus a third division open only to Ken George! Last time the competition was good but Ken's entry was outstanding by all counts!
                                Donate to my Tour de Cure


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