Opposite ends of the spectrum, new camera?

[LinuxRandal]

I started looking at Digital camera's recently. Before buying my house, I was getting into photography, quite seriously, before aquiring my house. So I bought a cheap one a couple of years back, and it was stolen. Now I was looking at doing some ebaying and wanted something better then a cheapie. So I was looking at a Kodak z650 (6mp 10x zoom), and would have really liked a digital slr. But I don't want to get back into all the lens cost and all, so I was looking at a higher end also and wondered about somewhat future proofing myself, with the Panasonic dmc-fz50 (10.1mp 12x zoom, more). What all do you guys look at when trying to make a choice? What do you think of my choices? Trying to step back and make a reasonable decission, as I know once I get one, I will get back into it more.

Thanks

[jspelbring]

Panasonic cameras

I've got the Lumix FZ20 (I think that's the model - 12x zoom, 5MP), and I love it. Auto or manual modes, optical image stabilization - takes great pics.

[Marv]

panasonic camera

I have the panasonic FZ30 (8 megapix) and love it. It has the 12 times zoom with the zoom control ring on the lens barrell instead of the push buttons that you cannot get to stop where you want. It has image stabilization that helps prevent blurr due to shaking.

It also has a longer flash distance than most cameras.

It is also fairly fast from turn on to first picture ready. It has a relatively short time between pictures.

It uses Leica lenses and gives great pictures.

I have the Nikon 5700 also but much prefer the Panasonic. The Panasonic is much easier to use than the Nikon 5700.

Marv

[andrew.r.w]

FWIW - neither of the models you mentioned appear in Consumer Reports' ratings, however there are a few of each Panasonic and Kodak models (with model numbers that are quite close) flagged as good choices.

IMHO, digital cameras are a fast-changing and complex technology, and Consumer Reports is a good source of information for guys who don't have unlimited research time. It could take several days to learn all the details and what they mean. I've had a subscription to CR for a few years and it's helped me with everything from coffee makers to wide-screen TVs.

My advice: take their advice. It's cheap.

[LinuxRandal]

Do you know the issue number that did the camera reviews?

My father has a Cannon dslr, as well as his old slr. But he doesn't have the zoom lens. That was my most used function when I took pics, for various reasons, from subject matter, to staying in a safe location.
So far the only complaint I seem to have found from the Panasonics, is from people who HAVE the dslr's and hate the speed differences. The Kodaks I know about are older models of the one(s) I have looked at, and they had red eye issues.
What about that, for those of you who have the Panny's, has that been an issue?
I also did some price and reseller shopping, so I have sent a question to amazon, to see if they can match the best compromise I found (around $50 less).
The more I research it, the more I lean toward the Panasonic.

[andrew.r.w]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that it is an on-line subscription.

www.consumerreports.org

I think it is $40/year or something like that.

[LCHIEN]

I posted the Consumer reports recommedations in a very recent (10/15) thread on digital cameras.
http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=24225 (does anyone look at existing topics before posting a new one?)

As for the OP, it's kind of crazy to be taking eBay pictures with the kind of camera he's describing he wants. Most ebay pics will be best served by photos af around 0.3 MP (e.g. smaller than 640 x 480 pixels) just like the limits on pictures here on BT3central. and 10 MP is way, way too much.
If you want my advice, buy a used camera 2-3 years old around 2 MP with macro focusing capability & USB downloads and use that for eBay and BT3 postings and e-mail.

If you want a serious camera for printing 8x10s and archival use then buy your DSlr or the DSLr wannabes (Sounds like you don't really want to change lenses, just have the capabilities). I Was/am a very serious photo buff but I am not springing Kilobucks for a true DSLR until they don't go obsolete every two years or less. I personally use a Fuji S5100 (now the S5200 is out) which is way more camera than 90% of the population can use. Its a dslr lookalike (no actual removable lens).

Real DSLRs suffer a problem that 35mm SLRs don't have - when you change the SLR lens you can let dust fall on the mirror and possibly the film. The mirror does not affect the final pic and the film will at least be advanced and not affect the next pic. With DSLRs the image surface is always the same and any dust hitting it will be on it for a long time affecting every pic. So DSLRs should be really for those who really need the advanatges of lens changing. Most people don't, particlualry since digital camers have small image areas and a 10:1 zoom is quite easy and small to make compared to the range of 35mm lenses.

[LinuxRandal]

Yes I read them but that was more of a bench saw to a bt comparison

I posted the Consumer reports recommedations in a very recent (10/15) thread on digital cameras.
http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=24225 (does anyone look at existing topics before posting a new one?)

As for the OP, it's kind of crazy to be taking eBay pictures with the kind of camera he's describing he wants. Most ebay pics will be best served by photos af around 0.3 MP (e.g. smaller than 640 x 480 pixels) just like the limits on pictures here on BT3central. and 10 MP is way, way too much.
If you want my advice, buy a used camera 2-3 years old around 2 MP with macro focusing capability & USB downloads and use that for eBay and BT3 postings and e-mail.

If you want a serious camera for printing 8x10s and archival use then buy your DSlr or the DSLr wannabes (Sounds like you don't really want to change lenses, just have the capabilities). I Was/am a very serious photo buff but I am not springing Kilobucks for a true DSLR until they don't go obsolete every two years or less. I personally use a Fuji S5100 (now the S5200 is out) which is way more camera than 90% of the population can use. Its a dslr lookalike (no actual removable lens).

Real DSLRs suffer a problem that 35mm SLRs don't have - when you change the SLR lens you can let dust fall on the mirror and possibly the film. The mirror does not affect the final pic and the film will at least be advanced and not affect the next pic. With DSLRs the image surface is always the same and any dust hitting it will be on it for a long time affecting every pic. So DSLRs should be really for those who really need the advanatges of lens changing. Most people don't, particlualry since digital camers have small image areas and a 10:1 zoom is quite easy and small to make compared to the range of 35mm lenses.

Ebay is just an immediate need (trying to clear out some stuff, to make room). I don't want to have to buy a scanner and break out the old still camera. I do need a longer lens then most of those sub $200 cameras have (at least a 6x, preferably 10x as I am used to distance photography with a 300mm lens) and don't have the luck to have a local staples clearing out the s2/3 series. I never went pro although people did try to hire me for jobs, and I have never been a snapshot kinda person, though everyone takes them at family style events. My photography money (was buying a Nikon F4 and lenses), bought my first house (down payment and immediate improvements). So that shows the level I liked, but no longer have the budget for (no more $1000+ lens). Really trying to determine wether I should go greater then 6mp as I can cut down ebay photo's, just not increase them (can anyone say board stretcher).
Gonna hit circuit city as they had it's predacessor, on sale this week, I figure it will be like all the places I look, no working models (what ever happened to all my good local camera stores?). Anyone with one can email me examples if they so choose.
One other issue not mentioned, can be figured out by my username. The software that comes with them will be useless, unless I want to see IF it will run on an emulator.

[jhgrady]

Hi

I'll second the vote for the Panasonic DMC-FZ30. Takes wonderful picturers.

John

[leehljp]

I have the Japanese version of the Digital Rebel XT purchased 18 months ago. When I got it, I was looking at the Nikon simply because Nikon is recognized as the best in the 8 - 10 mp range. I was working inside the World Expo at the time and was able to see people daily from around the world with all kinds of cameras. Lots of Canon, Nikon and Olympus cameras as well as other brands, but the top three were those just mentioned. I questioned each person that I could about their camera and how they felt about it.

The Nikon owners all said one thing: Difficult to learn and it is for the professional that uses it every day. Most said that they bought it because they thought if it was for a professional that it would help them get professional results. I was surprised at how many said it was difficult to learn and use to its fullest. That pushed me to the Canon.

I am not recommending the Canon per se to you but that professional level usage is often more difficult and requires a higher learning curve and continued usage to keep all the variables in mind. As a younger user, you probably can handle that but for me, I get tired to having to re-learn all the variables when I haven't used the camera for a couple of months.

I do have Image Stabilized lense and really like it. I would not buy a lense or camera without that feature.

[Tom Slick]

www.dpreview.com is an excellent resource for digital photography.

I have a canon digital rebel XT I like it alot but it is not a camera that you pick up and start taking excellent pictures with. there is a learning curve for sure.

[LinuxRandal]

Went looking at several consumer electronics stores, trying to find it locally. Circuit city had the consumer version of the cameras I was looking at: Panasonic DMC-FZ7K, 6mp 12x zoom, no hot shoe (built in flash, higher red eye chance), no focus rings (manual focus via joystick), no flip out lcd. Yet they had the DMC-FZ50K's description listed for $399, which was a misprint of sorts. The stock number on the page links to DMCFX50K. Big difference. Have to wait for delayed gratification, as I'd been waiting for the Bosch 1617 series to go on sale... , always the same time.
Costco, also had the camera, not for less then say an Amazon (whose price I beat on the other model), but cheaper the CC. They also have that wonderfull return policy, so I was tempted (hoping my model will later hit the store).
However, my mother wants me to list some stuff for her, and said to borrow one of their camera's for it, so I will wait for a bit. (only have so much fun money, till I sell some stuff).
Thanks for the help all, you helped me decide that I was right to wait for a decent higher end consumer line. Now it's a wait and save game!

[430752]

look for

sorry, came late to the post, been away a while, but I'd recommend a few things:

first, look at dpreview.com. absolutely. do doubts about it. pro'lly the best review site on the web, for any reviews of any genre. they're that thorough.

next, you don't need 10mega. But, I disagree that 3 or 4 is enough. Well, enough of rmaybe quick snaps without being blown up, but if you're gonna do any kind of cropping or editing, I think you need the extra information to work with. Thus, I'd say 6-7mega.

Third, understand that the glass is usually more important than the silicon (but, is glass made of silicone?). Anyway, what I mean is that a great sensor (the megapixel thing) can be ruined by poor glass (lens mechanism(. Conversely, a poor sensor can be improved a bit by good glass. Also, the sensor should be judged by how well it takes gains in sensitivty, akin to going from iso100 to iso 400 in film. crap sensors often demonstrate terrible noise or artifacts when an increase in sensitivity is had.

fourth, I really, really strongly consider going for a bit wider than a bit longer. Okay, that can be taken the wrong way. So, in terms of camera lens focal lengths, I believe a wide angle is more useful than a tele. Most cameras with 3x zoom, or 6x zoom, or 10x zoom (btw, digital zoom doesn't count), is measured from the wide. Most also start at 35mm wide equivilant, which is where wide begins. I'm even seeing 38mm and 40mm as being the base wide. This is not wide. Most humans get a camera, fall in love with the tele zoom, since who doesn't like to zoom in on something 2 miles away, but if you get into it at all, you realize wider is better. I can't tell you how much I use my 17mm wide over my 300mm tele on my slr and dlsr. You get close to the subject and use the wide. My point is, everything else being equal, try to get the camera that gives you a bit wider fov, like below 35mm if possible.

fifth, if you find yourself scratching yer head and not wanting to sift through the details of dpreview, then focus on the panasonic's. I don't own one, but I keep hearing really good things about them, they seem to spec out well, they seem to have good sensors (albeit with a bit if sensitivity issue, which most will have to some degree), and the O.I.S. is supposed to be one of the better stabilization systems out there.

good luck,

curt j.