Right age for computers

[gugie]

The twins are coming up on their 4th birthday. Grandpa wants to purchase them real computers (MS Windows XP), load kiddie software on them, and have 'em go at it. Wife and I wonder if we should wait a couple of years and get them "fake" computers-I've seen ones that look and feel like a computer, but just run games.

They both are showing a lot of interest, and I let them play around with the mouse and click on stuff. One of the girls is actually quite a good photographer. I've let her take pictures with our digital camera, she really takes the time to compose the picture, and we're surprised at how well they turn out. so we want to get her one of the Fisher Price "rugged" digital cameras. I know enough that they should have the right size mouse, designed for kids, and a simplified keyboard if and when they get their own.

What experience do you have with your own kids/grandkids/etc. and the minimum age to get them a "real" computer? I know the longer I wait the more bang for the buck I'll get, but if they're ready they should start.

Advise?

[offthemark]

I too have twins that just turned four a couple of months back. They've had an actual PC for about a year now. I bought a load end machine and it stays in their room. It works great for us.

Kid games for that age are cheap and people like giving them as gifts so my kids have about 50. They love it. They use the standard mouse and keyboard. They had a hard time when they were barely three but now they are old pros at the mouse (they are still learning the keyboard). At four years, I wouldn't invest in any special equipment. They will sit and play QUIETLY for 30-45 minutes.

Their machine does NOT have internet access. All they can do is run their games.

Also, keep in mind that you must have speakers. Every game we have for them uses character voices or sound as part of the game. Can't play without it.

One other note on the camera: My wife and I recently upgrade our digital and gave our old one to our 6 year old. She does great with it. (Don't tell my wife but my duaghter actually takes better pictures than her.) I'd wait another year, buy myself a nicer camera, and hand down the old one.

[linear]

I'd say they're probably ready now. My kids both had their own by age 3.

Lessons learned:
+ only give them duplicates of CDs (mine will not put CDs away properly no matter what the threat)
+ kid-oriented peripherals are available (keyboard, mouse) but may hold them back more than help
+ once they get a little older, BIOS password is your friend
+ instill some pride of ownership, maybe little customizations, maybe using bigger ones if you can
+ they touch the monitor a lot, so flat panels may not be the best choice (OTOH, my daughter went nuts with a magnet on her CRT so it's fubared in an amusingly colorful way)

[jAngiel]

I don't remember what age the twins were when we first started letting them play on the computer but they are 11 now. We also have a 7, 5 and 3 year old that can all play age appropriate games. I would let grandpa get them one.

The only thing I have to watch now is that I set up a wireless network to allow access to the internet so we moved their computer out to the main area so that we can watch what where the older ones are surfing to.

[mschrank]

My three-year old (almost 4 now) has been using a regular PC for about a year. He's quite comfortable with it....we have no special mouse or keyboard.

My only problem is that many of the children's games are very cheaply made, and frequently crash (though the suggestion of making duplicate CD's is a good one...the crashes may be related to scratched CD's covered with peanut butter & apple juice )

There are a lot of really great educational games out there that sneak learning into the fun. I'm amazed at what he's picked up regarding reading and math. And yes, I do read "real" books to him...but he's definitely benefitting from the PC games.

One other tip: If you don't set some time limits, they'll play all day and night. I use a cheap kitchen timer to limit screen time to 30-60 minutes at a time. Something about the timer going off makes him cooperate better than me simply telling him to come back to the real world

[scmhogg]

gugie,

My youngest, now 21, was on an old Tandy CoCo when he was three.

We had a basic program that was like an ABC book. When you pushed a key the upper and lower case letter would appear and pictures to match. eg. A--airplane, apple, alligator etc. Michael loved that program. We gave him a list of the ABC's in order and he would hunt them out on the qwerty keyboard.

My older son and I added a speech cartridge to the CoCo and wrote an add-on to the program, so that the computer would say the letter when the key was pushed. It was a PITA to get the speech cart say the letter's name rather than the sound. [C=see]

Michael made a game out of it. He would see how fast he could make the computer say the whole alphabet. As a result, he is now a lightning fast typist. He doesn't always use the correct finger but he is fast.

One good feature of this old program was that you couldn't get out of the program once it was running, without turning the computer off.

This stopped the little fingers from crashing our files.

Steve

[Popeye]

Go for it Mark. My grandson was on mine and his daddy's by 4. His cousin is 4 and of course has to do everything BIG cousin Lance does. Lance is all of 7 now. The little critter does fine. Pat

[darrellcraig]

I work in the PC software industry here as a consultant here in Seattle (yep, that company). Don't have children yet (working on it) but I wouldn't let my kids have their own computer until 6-8 (same for TV). I think pretty much all the alternatives to computers and television are far superior from a developmental perspective and I see no long term disadvantage for children in families around here who've made that same decision (I know MSFT people with 11-12 year olds with no PCs). In fact, many of the smartest kids I know have no TV and limited computer access.

Most importantly, if you chose to get the PC, in addition to all the parental control software and misc monitoring of their usage, I would highly recommend making the PC a "family" PC, rather than a dedicated kids' PC and keeping in a common area where you can easily monitor their usage.

[captbooshz]

My two are both on the computer; one just turned 4 and the other about to turn 5. They both started when they were 3 on a Fisher Price Toddler Little People app. Now, they both a folder on the desktop with links to the web sites they like; Dora, Pooh, Little People, etc...

They have my old computer, which is setup on a small desk right beside my computer in our office.

[tedkitch]

Have you considered a Mac mini?

I have both a 2 year old and 5 year old and they both use a Mac mini. Out of the box it is very easy to configure where they can't change anything on the desktop and they are only allowed to run certain programs. They both have certain websites that they are allowed to visit (no extra software needed on a Mac). The online experience tends to be cheaper as you don't have to purchase additional games as there are tons of games for free on the web that do the same thing.

I'm not a Mac zealot, but have been very pleased since I made the switch. I'm just saying this so there is no Mac vs. PC debate. I'm only bringing it up as I feel that it is a very valid solution for kids. In fact, I'm a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, but you can't do as many things with Windows (right out of the box) as you can with the Mac. You can get into a Mac Mini for less than $600. Here is one spot to check:

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/def...px?EDC=1039807

The best thing about a Mac right now is that you really don't have any of the virus, spyware, trojan horse issues, etc. as you do with Windows. I will second what I read about kids touching the monitor and that you should only give them copies of CD's.

If you have any more questions, PM me and I'll be glad to offer you whatever help I can.

Hope this helps,

[TheRic]

I build computers on the side. I have helped set up many families with computers for their kids of ALL ages and backgrounds. Several things I have noticed, some already mentioned.

If the ages are only 4 then you don't have to worry about them messing up the computer too much (about 10 is when that kicks in, Mileage May Vary). The young ones are physically hard on the computer. I would get a CRT, get a Flat Screen and you might as well just burn your money. Have an extra Keyboard ready, or invest in a skin that covers the keyboard (about $25). Things WILL get spilled on/in it.

Save some money and get them a computer a year old, or so. The computer will be fast enough, there will be enough memory, the hard drive will be big enough, the price will be a lot cheaper.

You WILL need speakers, some games can NOT be played without speakers, specially at that age (of Educational games). Many of the games have a voice that will tell them what to do, specially since they can't read. (Yes, it sounds like a duh, but you will be surprised how many have made that mistake).

Find out what the spec on the computer is and learn to read them on the box BEFORE you buy them. About the only trouble you will have for games at that age is Video. Have seen some of the games get carried away in video display, Disney was bad there for a while. The box should also say what the topic they are trying to teach them, and for what levels. Make COPIES!!!!!!!! Hide the original!!!!

Printer is nice but not needed. So they can print out their High Score, or certificate that they did this or that. Don't attach it to Internet, and you won't have to worry about viruses, and that stuff. Anti-Virus software, firewalls, etc can cause problems with software (of all ages), specially during installation. Most software companies will tell you to turn it off before you install anything.

Have the hard drive reformatted and the operating system but back on, that is it. They don't need anything else at that age. All that other stuff will just confuse them, waste resources, and potentially cause conflicts with anything new you install.

Learn to install the game, then learn to play it BEFORE you tell them about it. Don't need to play the whole game, just enough to get them started. They will catch on, and help YOU when you get stuck.

If you can afford, have the room for a dedicated computer do it. You will find that every time you want to use it for yourself, they will want to use it. Something like monkey see, monkey do. For example when ever my wife is on the phone I seem to remember the calls I need to make. Didn't remember them before the phone call, and forgot half of them after the call.

Now for my personal opinion on them playing at that age: I truly believe that kids should spend time playing with other kids, learn things on their own, learn things from other kids, learn to fall down and get back up on their own, learn that dirt taste bad, playing in the rain is fun, not to mention the mud, a skinned knee hurts, but it was fun getting it. In other words kids should be kids. Have seen to many parents try to use the TV, computer, etc as a baby sitter. Allowing them only so much time on it is a great idea. I like the suggestion on using an egg timer. The time can be set a little longer on rainy days, shorter on sunny days (or better yet, unplug the computer, and "It's broke, but I'm sure it will be working fine the next time you come over.").

[JSCOOK]

My 4 1/2 has been using our desktop since she was 3 ... she plays on kids internet site supervised ... she just started kindergarden and apparently is "advanced" for her age according to a teacher ... I suspect that this is partly due to the educational programs she's played on the PC.

This summer she got her own in her room, which is NOT connected to the internet ... only thing we've learned is to limit the time she plays on it otherwise it would be all the time

[twistsol]

Go fo it

My twins and their "big" sister have been using computers since around 3 years old and they each had old laptops I bought from eBay since about six. They're getting new MacBooks for Christmas but they don't know it yet.

I agree with the recomendations to only give the kids copies of CD's. I keep all the originals in my office and can burn a new one for them anytime the get scratched, chewed on by the dog, etc. They're 12, 12, and 13 now and I rarely have any issues with the CD's when they were little, it was once a week.

TV and Computers, limit the time they can use them daily and supervise what they're doing. So many parents today treat computers and TV's like electronic babysitters, and that will inhibit rather than help your children's development.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I have 4 year old and 5 year old girls. They have a dedicated computer and love it. One key for little beginners is to slow down the tracking speed of the mouse.
Games are incredibly cheap. $5-$10 for Disney Princess, Hello Kitty, etc at Circuit City. They will play for hours.
The computer is on our network. 9 year old son uses it to play online games, but those sites seem awefully virus ridden. Thus far we trust his content selection, though I am sure we need to limit it in the very near future.
Best idea is to be in the same room. Never put a computer in a kids room, even with Web-Nanny software.
No matter how often you tell the kids not to chat with strangers, they will. Two years ago, I scared my son to death online. He was on the computer when I sent him a instant message. He had no idea who I was. He gave me his name, address, age, phone number, etc. Once I got all that info I then private messaged him and told him I knew where he lived, what his name was and that I was coming to get him. Understand I was sitting in the same room. He walked out of the room, went into the living room with his Mom and started bawling! Scared to death. Some folks think I am twisted for doing that but I can ASSURE you he will not do it again.

[TheRic]

..... Some folks think I am twisted for doing that but I can ASSURE you he will not do it again.

I must be as twisted as you, join the club. I believe it's better I set them up and catch them red handed, verses someone else. From me they get a good scolding, and some punishment. 1000 times better then what could have happened.

Sorry to hijack the thread.