Standby generator for home

[newood2]

I'm thinking of getting a standby generator for the house just in case of power loss. I figure I need to add up the total wattage for things like refrigerator, television, computer, AC, fans, light bulbs. Then the total wattage should be about 70% of the generator maximum output.
Example;
Total wattage=7000w
Generator size=10000w
Is this a good estimate considering startup current are normally higher than running current for refrigerator, AC, TV?
As for wiring, should I run separate wiring to apliances and lighting, or interface with house wiring at the entry panel via manual transfer switch?
Being that I live in the NYC I'm not sure if there are codes and reguirements to consider here.
What brands are rated good?
Have any of you guys done anything like this, where do I start?
Howie

[LCHIEN]

if you are really rich you buy a generator that wil carry the whole load of your home. Then you put in a transfer switch, manual or automatic prefereably that will disconnect from the mains, and switch the whole house circuit to generator. No mess, no fuss.

In real life that's kind of expensive in case of a storm you just want refrigerator, TV and a few lights perhaps. Power tools if you need to fix stuff. Overbuying capacity is expensive plus you'll use a lot of fuel.

If you go the latter route then you don't want to power up the whole house so most people run a bunch of extension cords to the generator in a temporary setup.

Don't need to go too far over the load if you don't start everything at once like you might if it was all on and power ent out and you tried to bring it up on generator.

[crokett]

I have a 5000W portable generator. It is enough to run fridge, water pump and a few lights. Plus I can have used it when I needed portable power outside.

[cwsmith]

If you're in the "city", I'm sure there are several codes that will apply and I'd consult with your local code enforcement or building codes office.

If you live in a smaller village or town, you should also take the local codes into consideraton of course, but there may be more latitude.

Looking at an auxilliary power unit or generator, you probably need to consider exactly how long you might think you would ever need such a device. Loss of power to your neighborhood during a disaster, or simple brownout situation that may be intermittant over a couple of days.

During a disaster, like New Orleans and Katrina, the aux power would be great, but from a purely "survival" point of view, you'd stick out like a beacon, with the only lights around and the sound of a generator running. One unfortunately must realize in such situations, that civilized people don't always rule the neighborhood during such disasters.

The other problem that you face is fuel. The larger the generator, the more fuel you will require. If your unit runs on natural gas, how long will the city supply keep flowing in such a disaster. If you need gasoline, do you really want to store several days supply. The bigger the generator, the bigger the fuel supply that will be needed. One must also realize that when the power goes out, your local gas station cannot pump gas either. So, you may be talking about having to store quite a lot of gasoline, which isn't exactly safe.

Bottom line, from my point of view, is that for emergency situations, you don't need a whole house system. Just something to run the refrig and freezer, furnace, and some limited lights. I'd prefer an alternate heating system that doesn't require electricity and size my emergency needs to the essentials of food preservation, heat and cooling, and communications (battery operated cell phone, radio, etc.)

CWS

[Deadhead]

When I think "standby" generator, I think big, expensive, natural gas/propane, and non-portable. 10kW and up. I see they have some smaller ones out now though:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...5028_200325028

If that's what you want, definitely get a transfer switch. It's much safer. For you and the guy fixing your power line. Even if you get a portable generator, a transfer switch is the way to go.

I sized my portable so I could run the water heater or well pump on it. If I were to lose power for more than a day in the summer, I'd buy a window AC and cool one room. In an emergency situation like that, I don't need to run the heat pump. I've got a few space heaters for winter time power loss.

I spent 1 homeowner's deductible and 2 refrigerator's worth of food that would be lost. I figured I'd rather spend the money and not have to worry about frozen pipes or losing all of that food.


Unfortunately, I did all of this AFTER Hurricane Isabel came through and we were without power for 7 days.

[thiggy]

I have a 5000W portable which is sufficient to power several lights, a TV, two refrigerators, a freezer and my furnace blower. (I am careful when initially starting up to plug the refrigerating equipment in one at a time, so they are not all trying to start at the same time.)

[scorrpio]

I'd say a good way to size it is take a look at your electric bills. How many kWh used up over pas several months will give you an idea of what is your average consumption per hour - Once you know the kWh used up per hour, you basically know the average wattage.

Average US household in 2001 consumed 10650 kWh. That is about 29 per day, or roughly 1.2kWh per hour - so average load was about 1200 watts.

I'd say emergency power needs will be roughly similar to night consumption - i.e. fridge and as few lights as possible.

Do I have a hole in my logic someplace, or a 2kW generator should be fine for emergency stuff?

[Stytooner]

Those are typically the type of generators I think about when I think Standby. Large units ready to take over in the event of power outage.
Transfer switches are a must I think with anything over 10 KW. 10 KW are the size that we typically used in the field when my job was keeping the CO's coffee hot and the First Sargeant's beer cold. We had two mounted on one trailer. All power cords plugged into the load terminals.
Now you have standby generators and then you have the type that can sink up in phase with the next one when bringing one down to service. They have parallel lights to gert the phase just right. These are used where ther might be delicate or sensitive equipment in operation such as Hospitals, Radars and missle silo's. Now those generators were fun to take care of.
Since needs change from time to time when we use ours, I find it's much easier to simply use power coards rather than a transfer switch. Then as with us, when we evacuate, we take our generator with us. This was a smart decision the last time as the storm had also knocked out power at the inlaws and we used the generator up there. I think if it's a portable generator, it should be kept portable.
If you need the security of a standby generator, get the transfer switch. It can greatly increase the value of your house, should you decide to sell it as well.

[Russianwolf]

Handy Dandy chart to help with sizing.

http://www.bowerspower.com/Generator_sizing.htm

Deisel Generators usually last longer than gas burners, plus Deisel oil isn't as explosive. Add to that a Deisel can run on Biodeisel and Vegtable Oils in a pinch.

[newood2]

Wow! Thanks for the info guys. After reading the replies I believe what I need is a 5000w or smaller portable generator without transfer switch and all that. Just for some lights, refrigerator, TV and a window AC for 1-2 days.
What about brand name and cost? What's the best
Thanks again for helping me decide what I need.

Howie

[Russianwolf]

Check your a/c unit. They are notorious energy suckers on startup wattage. Even worse than friges

[Stormbringer]

Wow! Thanks for the info guys. After reading the replies I believe what I need is a 5000w or smaller portable generator without transfer switch and all that. Just for some lights, refrigerator, TV and a window AC for 1-2 days.
What about brand name and cost? What's the best
Thanks again for helping me decide what I need.

Howie

Howie,

I, like yourself, have been looking into these as well of late...especially with the ongoing Con Ed outages. My concern, as I imagine yours based on your locale, is how loud these suckers are having neighbors right on top of you. Although pricey, this Makita seems the best of the bunch in this wattage (5000-6000). Reviewers on Amazon mention it's the quietest of the bunch at 74db. I think shop vacs run around 93db.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013


An outstanding value, August 28, 2005
Reviewer:David Gancarz (Central Florida, USA) - See all my reviews

After weathering three hurricanes last year here in central Florida, we decided to take the plunge and invest in a generator. We were looking for one with enough power to run our refrigerator, ceiling fans, lights, television, microwave, computer, and miscellaneous small appliances (coffeemaker, fans, etc). We also wanted the machine to be portable so it could be stored in our garage when not in use and moved outside by one person when it needed to be run. It should be gasoline powered, relatively fuel efficient, and affordable. Finally, we wanted to be able to hook the generator into our house circuitry so as not to have to deal with extension cords. Connecting to the house circuitry meant installing a transfer switch for safety and to meet National Electric Code requirements. A transfer switch allows you to power essential, pre-selected branch circuits (refrigerator, living room, dining room, for instance) from either utility power OR generator power, but never both simultaneously. The transfer switch does the very important job of electrically isolating generator-powered branch circuits from utility service. Without it, you would be energizing service lines outside your house, creating an extremely dangerous condition; for instance, you could electrocute utility crews working to restore power. The transfer switch configuration also requires the generator to supply 120/240VAC power, which is what is used to power the transfer switch/subpanel.

For the list of items we wanted to power, 5000W is the correct size. A larger generator would be needed if we wanted to run our central air conditioning system, the hot water heater, and/or the electric range.

We visited the usual home-improvement-superstore suspects to look at 5000 Watt generators. TroyBilt and Generac are well under $1000 and certainly affordable, but they are made by Briggs & Straton and are of poor quality, in my opinion. I bought a brand new TroyBilt/B&S power-washer some years back and after about 6 months the seams in the plastic gas tank came apart, causing it to leak gasoline when filled more than part way. I bought a new Toro lawn mower with a B&S engine which suffered the exact same fate - the seams in the plastic gas tank failed. Perhaps I am just unlucky with B&S products. But for me, I am not interested in owning another one.

Honda generators were very nice and have a well-deserved reputation for reliability. However, they were just not affordable - at least to us. If I were a site contractor and was going to use it every day, then maybe I could justify the $3000+ cost, but certainly not for a machine that was going to spend most of its days sitting in the garage.

We settled on a Makita G6100R generator and I have been very happy with it. The 6100R is identical to the Robin Subaru RGV6100 -- evidently rebranded under the Makita name. It is powered by an 11HP OHV, 4-cycle, air-cooled Robin Subaru engine which, according to the literature, has an aluminum alloy block with cast iron cylinder liner, electronic ignition with automatic timing adjustment, dual ball bearing supported crankshaft, automatic decompression system, and splash type lubrication. The generator is brushless, self-exciting, 2-pole, single phase and generates 20 Amps on each of the two 120V output circuits for a total of 40Amps (20Amps at 240VAC). The 5-gallon metal gas tank will, reportedly, allow it to run under full load for about 7 hours. This generator is also available with an electric start (model G6101R). The one I bought (G6100R) has a recoil-type starter (pull cord). I had no problems starting it, whatsoever. It starts very easily. I also purchased the Makita 110004-A 2-wheel mobility kit, which I highly recommend. Without it, you are looking at close to 200 lbs of dead weight to move around.

I purchased a Gen/Tran PowerStay 200660 manual transfer switch, which allows me to switch up to 16 branch circuits between utility power and generator power. When in operation, the generator sits OUTDOORS and away from HVAC intakes (avoiding the dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning) and plugs into a Reliance PR20 power inlet box using a 10-foot L14-20 power cord (20A @ 120/240VAC). A 50-foot length of 10AWG 4-wire Romex runs from the power inlet box, through the attic, and connects to the transfer switch next to the main power center (breaker box). Basically, you start the generator, then switch the transfer switch to open the Utility breaker and close the generater breaker, thus supplying generated power to all the branch circuits wired into the transfer switch subpanel. A nice side feature of this setup is that when the utility power comes back on, power will be restored to those branch circuits not routed through the transfer switch (such as air conditioning). Therefore, you will know right away when the utility power comes back on.

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I'm not familiar with a "Twist Lock Plug" (maybe I've seen it just can't picture it) but a couple reviews mention it as a way to power your breaker panel. Don't know if this is safe or not

Ran my entire house on the generator (with a 20 AMP twist lock plug wired into my circuit panel)for 5 hours with no problems.

I used a outlet box with a twist lock plug to feed power into my main pannel.


Good luck,
Greg

[bigsteel15]

I gotta chime in now that it's gotten to brand.
I have to say that we use LOTS of generators in the field in my business as well as portable welding machines. We don't but a portable unit that doesn't have a Honda motor on it. These are mostly gas fired I believe.
The generator itself is all the same technology, but make sure you have a reliable engine if you go liquid fuels.
In NG, there was a Canadian company out of Calgary that was building generators that were 95% eficient if you used the hot water produced in generation. For the life of me, I can't remember the name.

[Stick]

Lots of farmers have PTO driven generators that run off a tractor, and since most farm tractors are diesel powered and most farmers have their own fuel tanks, they're usually good for quite a while. I've got wood and propane heat, and my own well and even an outhouse, and propane fridge in the camper, so my only concern is keeping livestock waterers from freezing in winter and freezers running in summer.

Myself, I have a diesel powered welder that's also a 10kW generator, and it uses a LOT less fuel than any of my tractors.

One other thing a lot of people forget is that fridges and freezers don't run all the time. A generator only needs to run when there is a demand. Usually a couple of times a day for an hour is good enough to keep a deep freeze frozen and a fridge cool. Much more is just a waste of fuel.

But, thawing frozen water lines is not a pile of fun, so if you have heat tape, be aware of it.

Oh yeah, and on synchronizing (paralleling) generators, that's how power plants do it, lots of smaller generating units to make up a large system. We start and stop them as required as load changes. When on line they all are connected together electrically, and run at the same frequency.