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[MilDoc]

Politics ... sounds good accomplishes nothing except spending more tax dollars uselessly.

[Crash2510]

I hardly think the comparrison can be made between the Berlin wall and this fence.

The berlin wall was a representative symbol of communism vs democracy seperating two halves of the same city in the same country.

This proposed fence is to help stop or be a deturent against the mass illegal immigration of 12 million mexicans from their country to ours. When they get here they are draining the system not paying taxes yet taking our tax dollars and american wages.

If they want to come to america make them pay taxes and come here legally.
If the illegal immigrants are going to stay here and want to become citizens make them pay back taxes or something, but if they want to fight for their rights, of which they have none, they either need to tell somebody who cares or become citizens before they should be able to voice an opinion on our politics.

[gmack5]

How about a 10KVA Electric Fence with a 6' wide "T" top along the entire Border???

That ought to slow them down a bit!

[Russianwolf]

How about a 10KVA Electric Fence with a 6' wide "T" top along the entire Border???

That ought to slow them down a bit!

until they dig under it.

[Russianwolf]

Could you please then post a layout for the stars on the flag?

* * * * * * * * *
.* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * *
.* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * *
.* * * * * * * *

ummm.... yep, 51

[germdoc]

There was an interesting discussion recently on walls throughout history--Hadrian's wall, Massinot line, Great Wall of China, etc. None of them worked, with the exception of the Great Wall, which the commentator noted kept out rabbits pretty well. The empires they represented all are kaput now. Being a pessimist at heart, I found that not exactly a good omen for our country.

Re' walls and immigrants--this is not a supply problem it is a demand problem. We demand cheap labor and the Mexican populace replies. Simple capitalism. Let's get real--our government will NEVER get serious about border control as long as we want cheap lettuce, chickens, etc. The day Americans go out and rally for $2 a head lettuce and $8 per pound chicken, with decent-paying jobs going to Americans or legal immigrants ,will be the day that you'll see immigration reform.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

[Russianwolf]

There was an interesting discussion recently on walls throughout history--Hadrian's wall, Massinot line, Great Wall of China, etc. None of them worked, with the exception of the Great Wall, which the commentator noted kept out rabbits pretty well. The empires they represented all are kaput now. Being a pessimist at heart, I found that not exactly a good omen for our country.
.

Don't know about the other two but the GWoC is simply amazing. They are still finding bits and pieces of wall that were abandoned and fell apart that keep extending the length of the thing. And I wouldn't exactly say that the Chinese Empire went kaput so much as changed over time. They are still one of the largest and most powerful countries in the world after all.

[germdoc]

Don't know about the other two but the GWoC is simply amazing. They are still finding bits and pieces of wall that were abandoned and fell apart that keep extending the length of the thing. And I wouldn't exactly say that the Chinese Empire went kaput so much as changed over time. They are still one of the largest and most powerful countries in the world after all.

Sorry, can't resist responding. The GWOC is of course an engineering and historical marvel (which I have yet to see). According to website travelchinaguide.com, "The Great Wall was originally built in the Spring, Autumn, and Warring States Periods as a defensive fortification by the three states: Yan, Zhao and Qin. The Great Wall went through constant extensions and repairs in later dynasties. In fact, it began as independent walls for different states when it was first built, and did not become the "Great" wall until the Qin Dynasty. Emperor Qin Shihuang succeeded in his effort to have the walls joined together to fend off the invasions from the Huns in the north after the unification of China." My knowledge of China history is a little fuzzy, but as I understand like most empires theirs fluctuated for a long while before fizzling out in a last burst of decadence.

My serious point is whether we are in the middle of our "imperial period" or in the final decadent phase.

Now, my snarky observation is that the wall was originally built to keep out the Huns and other undesirables. Now the Chinese welcome the influx of Huns into Shanghai to ink the business deals that are moving them into the forefront of manufacturing countries, with the winking suggestion, "By the way, while you're here, why don't you go on a tour of the Great Wall?"

[Russianwolf]

And if I remember correctly, after running into the GWoC, the Huns turned around and took out the other "Great Empire" at the Time. Rome.

I suspect there might be a group of high powered people that are trying to build an American Empire, but I don't know if they can keep their people in place (through elections) to sustain the build-up of it. Conspiracy? Maybe?

[Jeffrey Schronce]

There are only a few thousand "legal" slots for immigration open every year, and the waiting list can be years or even decades long. The legal route is out of reach for the vast majority of Hispanics who see no opportunities in their own countries.

Can that be true? How can NYC have over 2 million Hispanics? How can 23.6% of Reading PA's population be Puerto Rican? 26% in Allentown PA? Philadephia has 128,928 Hispanics 6,220 of which are Mexican and 91,527 are Puerto Rican. I can't imagine what the numbers are for Mexican Hispanics in CA and TX.
There has to be more than a few (3) thousand legal slots.

[Russianwolf]

Can that be true? How can NYC have over 2 million Hispanics? How can 23.6% of Reading PA's population be Puerto Rican? 26% in Allentown PA? Philadephia has 128,928 Hispanics 6,220 of which are Mexican and 91,527 are Puerto Rican. I can't imagine what the numbers are for Mexican Hispanics in CA and TX.
There has to be more than a few (3) thousand legal slots.

There are three populations that form the Immigrant Hispanic population. Illegal Immigrants who have no documentation, Resident Aliens (green card holders) who are here legally but are not citizens, and Legal Immigrants who have gone through the process to become citizens.

[JR]

A total of 1.1 Million legal immigrants were registered in FY2005, 14.4% of whom were from Mexico.

Readily available information at the DHS site covering this (used to be INS).

JR

[Jeffrey Schronce]

A total of 1.1 Million legal immigrants were registered in FY2005, 14.4% of whom were from Mexico.

Readily available information at the DHS site covering this (used to be INS).

JR

Sounds more realistic than a few thousand.

RussianWolf, my guess is that hispanic populations are larger than reported due to fear of deportation and general distrust of governement functions. That is one of the reason you find a high percentage of uninsured/unlicensed drivers in the hispanic segement.

[JR]

I don't know what the comprehensive answer is to the American immigration problem. I know what some of the components are.

• Administration of lawful immigrants must improve dramatically. I am aquainted with a number of immigrants who, to get a green card, had to wait up to five years on temporary work visas. Travel outside the country when in that status can be perilous, because you might not get back in ("Truly, officer, I am on a temporary visa and have applied for a green card, but you're viewing me in some limbo state..."). Once having gotten the OK the immigrant must go to the Immigration office in downtown LA at 2 am, waiting in line on the street until 8am office hours, or not be seen that day. No joke. That's WITH an appointment.
• Temporary work visas are important part of the solution and always have been. In the border states migrant labor, largely composed of foreigners, has been a key component of the work force for a century. Now, though, due to the adminstrative inefficiency mentioned above, farmers are getting their approvals AFTER the harvest is in!
• Deterence can and should be better. Among our many great attributes, we are a nation of laws. It's a lawless situation when thousands of people are streaming across our border unfettered. I stretch the truth by comparing it to the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. Local chieftains are the law there. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to imagine that happening in our border areas. In fact it largely is the case already on the Mexican side of the border.

I have an editorial comment, too. My heart really goes out to the immigrants. Many of them have walked, hitch-hiked, or ridden rails all the way from Honduras, Guatemala, Costa Rica and other Central American countries. These people are willing to risk their lives walking miles through the Sonoran dessert, guided by unscrupulous Coyotes, for the chance at a piece of the American dream. How can you not admire them?

JR

[Hoyden]

origonaly posted by JR: "I have an editorial comment, too. My heart really goes out to the immigrants. Many of them have walked, hitch-hiked, or ridden rails all the way from Honduras, Guatemala, Costa Rica and other Central American countries. These people are willing to risk their lives walking miles through the Sonoran dessert, guided by unscrupulous Coyotes, for the chance at a piece of the American dream. How can you not admire them?"

You have to admire thier tenacity. While they are here they work. they live in conditions that would apall most Americans. They take jobs most Americans refuse. Even with higher pay. The problem lies with the employer not the worker, legal or not. When we are willing to make the employer suffer for hireing the illigal then the situation will begin to change. the only real change will be when Mexican Nationals have an economy thet will support them in Mexico. Then they will become true trading partners.

A fence or National ID card only makes U.S.easier to controll. one more Freedom taken from U.S.