Stupid HOA or "I fought the law and the law won"

[Warren]

You have to careful up here too. A few miles odwn the road is a subdivision which is controled by a HOA. What bother's me is what was said earlier. The Association can start off benign and then morph over the years. I was never a joiner anyway. This is the only board I belong to. One owner, no committees, no elections, and the rules are pretty explicit and enforced by a gentle hand.

[Hellrazor]

It all depends how you want to take the HOA mindset. If its ok to sweep until 10pm, I'd set the sweeper on the front porch with a timer to run every night from 8:30-9:59pm. HOA are the modern day version of nazi ideals. I would read the contract and then tell them to go screw themselves. If your neighbors have bird feeders, complain they are messing up your car. Do any have cats they let run free? complain about that too. HOA are like out of control union environments where everything is always wrong.

[Wood_workur]

Say you neighbor's house is build on a cemetary, buried down 20 feet. It is, after all, Illeagal, not against the HOA, Illeagal to build a house on a cemetary of any kind.

Or get some pet skunks, if HOA allows...

[maxparot]

I am an attorney and part time woodworker. It surprised me in some reading I was just doing the per centage of new homes that are part of a HOA. As housing moves out of traditional single-family neighborhoods, almost everything being built is subject to CCRs. This encourages nothing but uniformity. Alaska everyone? Maybe we can establish a woodworkers HOA that requires late night projects, beer drinking, creativity and understanding.

Hmm I think you are on to something.
Woodworkers HOA in one section an auto hobbyist on another I even can envision 4 section with different interests. If you live on a boarder street you get both hobbies and on a corner property 4 hobbies.

[RickCarpenter]

This letter actually cites the CC&Rs and says I'm in violation of having an unapproved "hobby shop". They basically want me to get rid of my shop permanently.

You may want to look around and see if there are any ladies running a scrapbooking operation. That's a hobby (more like a cult to me!) big in popularity here. I'd bet any scrapbooking done in your neighborhood is also "unauthorized". Look at the bulletin board of your neighborhood post office for other "unauthorized" hobbies being committed. Extra points scored if board members or their wives participate.

... or get a construction/remodeling permit! That should fit within the guidelines.

Rick

[RickCarpenter]

More thoughts of mine, but seriously though. Check first about decibel levels and specific "anti-hobby" provisions first like the replies above suggest. If that doesn't work, document any other violations you can find. I believe legal precedent is that if one provision of an HOA is violated and allowed to stand, then the whole thing would be shaky in court because of inconsistent enforcement. Ask them if they want that publicized LOUDLY by you if they threaten anymore.

I live in an HOA and by and large they behave themselves... except on the golf course when rules and courtesy are not binding on board members.

Rick

[atgcpaul]

Life is too short

Well, I guess posting here was a guarantee for support. I live in a townhouse
complex (noone above or below). Attached garage underneath with a
neighbor attached next door (moved in last summer) and neighbors across
the driveway.

Unfortunately, the neighbor across from me is the ex-HOA pres of 18 years.
The day we moved in, he was just pulling into his garage. The first thing he
says to us is, "Make sure you fax in your new resident information form and
read your CC&Rs and we won't have any problems." Yeah, that wasn't really
the "Hello" we were expecting. This guy has been retired for I don't know
how long and when my wife was on the HOA (same year he stepped down),
he apparently faxed the management office weekly with lists of complaints.
Too bad he didn't set up a hobby shop of his own. I guess being a PITA is
suiting him just fine. Of course I don't know if he's the culprit but I think this
one is a sure bet. I was joking with my wife tonight that if I put a dark
cloak on him, he'd make an excellent Sith Lord.

The "law" states that no resident shall operate power equipment or a
hobby shop without written approval from the Board. Yes, I am in violation.
I don't think they care about decibal levels. I guess it also doesn't matter
that we are under the flight path of a local small airport.

I think what really bothers me is that there's a tattle tale. I thought we
were all more mature than to run and hide behind "Mommy" HOA. What ever
happened to, "Could you turn it down?" I just hate that there is just no
middle ground here. No opportunity to make a compromise.

Hopefully, all the sweat equity I put into this place sells the house faster and
I won't have to deal with this curmudgeon much longer. In the mean time,
I am honing my hand tool skills and continue to vacuum the house and garage
until the 10pm cutoff. Gotta' love my earmuffs! Maybe I can sneak into his
house and turn down his hearing aids.

Despite the fact this place is HOA controlled, of all the places we looked at,
this was the best. Best condition, price (not so after a recent $10K special
assessment), and most importantly location. I wasn't into WWing when I
moved in. Oh yeah, I'm 3miles from Rockler and 1 mile from HD. That didn't
help the situation. We're moving cross country back to the East Coast this
summer and we're hoping to find the perfect place.

Thanks for reading,
Paul

[JR]

We're moving cross country back to the East Coast this summer and we're hoping to find the perfect place.

Gee, that's a bit drastic! You must really hate your HOA!

JR

[atgcpaul]

Gee, that's a bit drastic! You must really hate your HOA!

JR

Well, the HOA over the past year has certainly helped us make our decision
easier, but it wasn't the deciding factor. We want to start a family and I want
to live closer to my family again. My parents just finished building a cabin
in Williamsport, PA and I didn't get a chance to help at all! I'm still bummed
about that. We are missing the boat a little bit, but it's also time to cash
out the equity in our house. Cha-ching! Dedicated shop here I come!

[Russianwolf]

No power equipment without written approval, huh. Do all your neighbors have written approval to mow their lawns and trim their bushes? Do they have written approval to watch TV? Is there a kid in the neighborhhod with a go-cart or moped? Those all fall under the definition of "Power Equipment".

[Bruce Platt]

Join us in New Hampshire


"LIVE FREE or DIE"

and they take it pretty seriously here

[wreckwriter]

When I went shopping for a different home 3 years ago, I told the realtor NO HOA! It really shortened the number of listing to go look at. Bottom line is I don't like being one of the clones. No one is going to tell me what I can use my property for or do to my property. When I tell others of my choice I'm warned about night mare neighbors. My answer is if they don't like me they can move.

That's exactly what I did, and what I will do the next time I move. Its bad enough complying with all the silly little rules the city sets, I won't be ruled by a HOA too.

[stewchi]

You do have to be very careful about HOAs. My FIL lives in Chandler AZ and has gotten in trouble several times, for leaving his garage door open. My MIL is a fantastic gardener, and flew off the handle when they got written up for weeds, which someone mistakenly complained about her flowers. She was complaining for months about idiots calling her flowers weeds. They have been billed by the HOA for hundreds of dollars, the HOA decides the neighborhood needs some project or other and charges all the residences for it. We have never lived in an HOA. When we lived in AZ all of the houses had fences and we never met any of the neighbors (more than just knowing there name). In Chicago it was more friendly but similar. We just moved to the South and its wonderful here. We have lived in our neighborhood for 2 months and know all of the neighbors, my daughter has been to 2 birthday parties, my neighbor behind me mowed my yard because I mentioned I had not bought a mover yet. A big part of this is the culture, but another part is no fences. The only think separating our property is courtesy. You can see when each other our out in the yard, you can talk and communicate, which leads to understanding and respect for each other. Fences keep that from happening. We really love it here. Even though we don’t have HOA we do have deed restrictions. I read them very carefully before we bought. For example, no outbuildings (that’s right, I can’t have a shed). But that’s reasonable as I have 2 driveways, one that goes to a 2 car garage door into the basement, and the other to a 3 car garage. Plenty of space for a reasonable person (I still want a shed, but accept that I should make do with my full basement and 3 car garage, tiny violin anyone) also no chain link fences, or advertising in the yard, must have brick mail box with street light, etc. All pretty reasonable, nothing about paint or cars, or keeping the garage door open, or noise, or businesses etc.
What blows me away are the prices here. For that Nazi HOA house in San Fran or Southern Calli you get a friken mansion on the lake out here and still have money left over to build Nahms shop. Good luck and be weary of those HOAs

[scorrpio]

Different things to different people. When we were looking for a house, we found out that in our target areas, townhouses in HOA-controlled communities actually cost more than non-regulated single homes. The reason is that people with money to buy are primarily career executives who pretty much only use their house to sleep in. They gladly pay a community fee, and for that money, the HOA will landscape, repaint their houses when they feel a refresher is needed. If they want an addition - like a bigger deck - they'll just tell the HOA, decide on a mutually approved design, and HOA will call in the usual contractor who will do the work, and it will be usually cheaper than if homeowner went looking for bids himself - since this contractor has a 'bulk deal' with community. HOA will usually have a plumber, an electrician, an HVAC guy and about every other kind of worker on standby, and owners just have one phone number to call if anything needs fixing - and all minor work is usually included in the monthly fee. My mother lives in a community like that, and she is quite pleased.

Some HOAs don't really restrict you to sameness - i.e. Manhattan Beach community in Brooklyn, the only requirement is that house has to look sufficiently grand, and has to be maintained in top condition. Houses start around 3 mil and go up from there. Each house(or rather say, palace) is a custom design, and you probably won't find two that look the same.

However, communities like that can be a total pain for those who like to work with their hands, and in particular have their own workshops. In particular when houses are attached or real close to each other. Our house is at least 70 feet from nearest house, separated by either the road, or rather dense foliage. Especially in summer, it is totally private. My shop is in a small separate building that is well insulated. My wife cannot hear me working when she is in the house, so I guess I am not disturbing my neighbors either. If we were in a HOA, likely noone would know that I have a workshop. For those working out of a garage, it is a good idea to put up some sound-deadening paneling, it can really cut the noise down.

Some extoll the virtues of HOA in that it prevents 'nightmare neighbors'. However, you don't need a HOA to deal with a problem neighbor. For example, if the area is zoned residential, running any kind of noisy commercial enterprise will not sit well with the municipality.

[maxparot]

Out here in Arizona all new developements are set up with a HOA. That leaves older homes and spot built homes without them. Here the non HOA homes tend to be priced slightly higher. HOAs have gotten so out of hand that state laws restricting their enforcement abilities have started to be enacted.
As for fences we have 7' cinderblock walls. I'm a firm believer that good fences make good neighbors. I know and am friendly with the closest neighbors except for the one directly behind me. He decided to claim that he spoke no english when his family moved in. Because of his loud mexican folk music and hitting my workshop with a BB gun he has found out who I am. He has met a few of our local police officers and it seems that he now speaks english fairly well. His family is a lot quieter now. And he has had to learn to like loud Rock n Roll. Aerosmith's - Don't Get Mad Get Even is a favorite.
We had one other problem in our neighborhood. Someone bought a house to make into a boys home. We (the neighbors) found out and tried to get the town to step in and stop it (thinking it's supposed to be a single family dwelling) The town couldn't because of the ADA.
We took a different plan of attack. The owner was told that if he opened the home he would be investigated for every business and personal dealing he was involved with intil the home closed. It was due to open before Christmas and hasn't yet.