Polish and/or wax

[Denco]

Hey Folks,
I've just begun wood turning again after a long hiatus. What polish and or wax do you like best? I'm turning pens right now. I've been using EEE and Shellawax, but interested in seeing what else is out there and what experiences with various brands you might have had. Thanks in advance.--Den

[leehljp]

Hey Folks,
I've just begun wood turning again after a long hiatus. What polish and or wax do you like best? I'm turning pens right now. I've been using EEE and Shellawax, but interested in seeing what else is out there and what experiences with various brands you might have had. Thanks in advance.--Den

I now you asked about polishes and waxes but I will relate the "other" finishes that I use rather than wax and polish.

I use CA primarily. CA - cyanoacrylate or super glue. It protects much better and shines great. Some people don't like the shine and prefer the wood look, but the wood look from wax allows it to get dirty and dingy looking in a few months. Pens are not like fine furniture. Pens are placed in hot sweaty pockets where acidic body humidity attacks the waxes and polishes, unlike fine furniture. Sweaty hands and even dry hands with dirt film gets onto the pens, usually making them dingy looking after a few months.

A few people will know and take care of a finely crafted pen like it should be, but very few. Think of a pen like you would the space under the handles of the kitchen cabinets. Notice how dirty they get - from hands. Poly finishes protect and make it "fairly" easy to clean but if the dirt and grime were on bare wood that only had a wax finish, it would be hard to get off. To get the patina on wood of a hand rubbed look and feel, it takes cleaning on a regular basis. Few people want to do that. From experience, several friends say that while some people choose the natural look, most do not want to do what it takes to keep it looking great. Rather than take the blame for a pen becoming dingy, they too often blame the pen maker and seller. And that is bad for business when people bad mouth us, even when it is their fault.

BAck to other pen finishes:

Some people use an acetone and acrylic sheet mix in which the acrylic is desolved in acetone. Both this acrylic and the CA have a kind of steep learning curve for many - to get great results. CA fumes and CA dust cause severe allergies in some people so they often use the liquid acrylic or go with a heavy duty dust mask and a Dust collector when making/finishing pens.

CA and Acrylic's advantages is the speed with the finish cures enough to sand and bring to a shine. Anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour depending on the thickness and shine desired.

The acrylic's disadvantage for me is that I have to make it (takes a couple of days but I can make enough to last a month or more) and mostly acrylic will cause some highly colored woods to bleed their colors. I like to make segmented pens and I got plum aggravated when the bloodwood bled onto the white ivory! Still there are times that I would use it, but I haven't learned the application of acrylic as well as I have CA.

A few use lacquer and a some others use polys. Lacquer and polys take hours to a day or more to cure to be handled. I have used lacquer on some and because I can buy it, I will use lacquer on occasion. Some lacquers will cause bleeding also.

I should note that the way to prevent bleeding for highly colored woods is to put a coat of CA on it first. But since I have to use CA first, I will just stay with CA. I cannot criticize the finish of those that use poly, lacquer or acrylic as they do super jobs!

[Whaler]

For a brilliant shine and durability I like BLO/CA for a finish although it makes a wood pen feel like a plastic one.
I have started using the walnut oil/shellac/wax mixture from
http://doctorswoodshop.com/?tx=9WE04...0&item_number=
It gives a nice shine and retains the woods natural feel.

[Denco]

Thanks, Guys. Excellent info!

Dick, I viewed the videos on Dr. Woodshop's site and think I might try some of his products.

Hank, what method do you use to apply the CA? I saw a guy online put thick CA on a paper towel and apply it to the spinning piece. Then, he'd sand it w/320 grit and repeat the process a few times. Is this the way to apply it? Not having used CA, I'm unsure how to proceed.

[Whaler]

Here is a great video on CA/BLO finishing and is the method that I use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orcgO...91036589E47F3E

[leehljp]

Thanks, Guys. Excellent info!

Dick, I viewed the videos on Dr. Woodshop's site and think I might try some of his products.

Hank, what method do you use to apply the CA? I saw a guy online put thick CA on a paper towel and apply it to the spinning piece. Then, he'd sand it w/320 grit and repeat the process a few times. Is this the way to apply it? Not having used CA, I'm unsure how to proceed.

First let me say that CA finish has a long learning curve for some and yet a few people get it fairly quickly.

For me - all methods apply. After getting some great finishes and lots of Not-so-great finishes and having to refinish two or three times on many - all of this over about 10 months, I stopped making pens . . . and decided to spend a couple of weeks just "learning" how to apply CA to get consistent finishes. I was not interested in a finished pen, but the pen "finish."

What I learned, I gladly share. However, the problem is that the "touch" "feel", "pressure" the "sheen" that are are very ambiguous to each person. Each person's application of those words is different.

AND there are external forces that are "moving targets" to contend with also. Humidity affects CA curing, and ambient temperature affects CA curing also. Plus, the way high humidity affects CA at 80° (cures quicker) changes when the temp falls below roughly 65° (slows down the curing.) Dry regions have slightly different curing rates as temperatures change. And BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil) mildly speeds up curing in cooler temps. Different Paper Towel brands affect the curing differently also.

I do not mean to scare you and would encourage you to give the different methods a try. Get some plain old scrap boards from a dumpster or pine and try some YouTube finishes. Focus on the feel of applying the CA - light pressure with Paper Towel (PT), then moderate pressure. Focus on how the blank looks in relation to the CA going on. It shines for a few seconds while still wet and then changes a bit after it cures. When a thick layer is on, you can't tell the difference by sight. Also, stop and look at the blank after you have applied a layer. Do you see shiny spots and flat/matte finish spots?

(OT to Finish but related to Flat/matte spots - This is indicative of too little finish on the flat spots and the fact that probably the CA has been rubbed off before it could set (or it sanded off). The flat spots, in a fair amount of cases, indicate that the pen blank is turning off center. This "Off Center" might be a bushing that has the hole drilled off center by about .005 or .007 or more. It might be that if a mandrel is used, then there could be too much pressure from the tail stock; a third problem is out of alignment between the tail stock and head stock; a 4th problem is the use of the stock tail "live center" which are made for wood but not for mandrels. Mandrels require a 60° live center, otherwise, the stock wood LC will wobble in the mandrel cup.) These cause wobble that will cause one side or spot to have more friction with the PT or light sanding and in return, it will cause the pen to be shiny and smooth over most of the area but flat/matte in spots. Many people who experience this incorrectly blame the CA as being bad. When the out of round or wobble occurs, even with a thick thick layer of CA, it can be very thin in that one spot. Light sanding will reveal the wood in that spot.

Back On Topic: Observation is your friend in all of this.

Next try different methods of applying the CA:

Paper towel (PT). If you have two or three different kinds of paper towel, try each and see the difference. Some paper towels do great and a few do not. Some (most) paper towels act as an accelerator to the CA curing. Make two or three applicators from each paper towel and see if there seems to be any difference in how much goes onto the pen versus stays on the paper towel; ALSO, notice the speed with which the CA "smokes" or cures with each PT brand. And see how smooth each brand applies the CA.

IF you have the small plastic bags that the pen parts come in, get one that will slip over a finger that you will use to apply the CA. (I use this on occasion but more often than not, I use rubber or latex gloves in place of the plastic bags.) Turn the lathe on and place the finger with the bag on next to the spinning blank. Add CA to the blank and use the plastic bag to smooth the CA, running it back and forth for the length of the blank. Notice how much smoother the CA applies than with paper towel? The downside is that the plastic bag does not accelerate the curing of the CA. With PT, there is faster curing and you can touch it immediately and start sanding immediately, but with the plastic bag or rubber/latex gloves the curing takes longer - a minute or two - or 10 in cooler weather and with thick applications. The upside is you can see the smooth finish and it does not have to be sanded as much.

AS you can see, there are variables, and that is good. When situations, temps and humidity changes, adjustments can be made to match the finish and get a good one.

The one advice that I suggest is to make a dozen pens or so and attempt to finish with CA following any one method that appeals to you. THEN with that experience under your belt, spend a couple of weeks focusing on finish. A fine finish comes more from "experience" than anything else. For most people, there is no magic bullet other than experience. And the more methods that you are familiar with in finishing, the more adapt you will be at getting a great finish as temp and humidity and wood varieties change.

AS you become proficient in achieving a great finish and then begin describing it to others, you will notice that "feel," "light touch," "mild pressure," "sheen" "smooth shine" means different things to different people.

If something doesn't make sense, please feel free to ask again. After living in a land of vagueness (Japan) for 26 years, I am trying to get used to direct on-the-same-page communicating again!


SANDPAPER:
I forgot to mention sandpaper. There is as much opinions on this as with anything else. I start with 320 and sand up to about 600 on wood. However, over CA, I start with the equivalent of about 400 and sand up to about 2000 or 12000 in micro mesh terms. Some people feel that wood needs rougher grit to give finish an adhesive point. But CA sticks the mirrors to the windshields without a problem and paint sticks to glass well when painting a house, so the idea that wood can be too smooth for finish to stick is just plain wrong. Now, some woods may be too green (moisture) or too oily as in ebonies and cocobolos and such but it is not the smoothness that prevents the finish from sticking.

For me, I sand as smooth as I can get it. Even after 12000 micro mesh, I use a fine auto paint polish on the CA and a carnauba wax on top of that. I use a magnifying glass to check my finishes over and if I see sandpaper scratches that I can't with the bare eye, I will go back over it again.

ON the wood, the finer the sanding on the wood the better. CA and other finishes will often magnify fine sandpaper scratches under neath. So for that reason, I personally go no less than 600 on the wood.

There are times that I will use 240 and that is when I have a delicate segmented blank and I don't want it to blow out or disintegrate. So I use 240 and sand and sand and sand until I get it down to near size and then sand down with 320 and then 400 and then to 600 or so. But this is more on the turning technique side than finish side.

[Richard in Smithville]

I found this video to be a great start when learning how to apply blo/ca to a pen. ( Dick should be familiar with the author)

http://youtu.be/orcgOf4siqc

Oops...I see Dick posted the same video

[gerti]

Thanks everybody for the detailed tips!

I wonder if walnut oil would work instead of BLO?

[Whaler]

Thanks everybody for the detailed tips!

I wonder if walnut oil would work instead of BLO?

I have some walnut oil, I'll give it a try and let you know.

[Carpenter96]

Pen finish

Hi if I want the wood to look like wood and not plastic I use a hard turners wax from Lee Valley. I have had great results and have people that have been using my pens for about 20 years. I have made a couple of pens that had to be stained to match an existing antique wooden boat and had to put varathane on as a sealer to keep the colour true and then the turners wax. This did somewhat make the pen look like plastic. No fumes , no toxcity. The customer ordered these in 1991 and still loves them. I have tried ca and other polishes but none are as simple as the turners wax. You basically melt it on and buff it with a soft cloth(an old cotton T-shirt works well) and you are done.
Regards Bob McDermid

[leehljp]

Thanks everybody for the detailed tips!

I wonder if walnut oil would work instead of BLO?

BLO has TWO uses and that is often left out of the first discussions.


1. ENHANCING the wood grain - BLO brings enhances the grain. Often people say "Pops the Grain". In my neck of the woods, "popping the grain" originally meant wetting it to make it stand up so that it could be sanded smoother. In pen turning it means enhancing the grain so that. Walnut oil will do the same. The color (lightness or darkness) of the applied oil along with the particular wood determine the enhancement.

BLO is not necessarily good on some woods as an enhancer. On holly, BLO causes an antiqued ivory look. But the "clearer" the better. Walnut oil will probably do the same depending on the clarity or darkness. BLO on bloodwood will cause the bloodwood to have a very slight "orangish" tint. This is not noticeable by itself always but when put beside a piece without BLO, it becomes evident.

BLO may not be good on some of the colored blanks that have the colors pressured in. Blue blanks will probably get a slight greenish tint; bright yellow will lose its brightness. BLO helps most but it can also take away from other woods.

2. BLO as an ACCELERANT and SMOOTHING agent. By putting some BLO on the PT (paper towel) and then adding a drop of CA on top, that makes most of the CA go onto the blank rather than soaking into the PT. I have found that for me, it acts as a mild accelerant when temps are in the 50's and low 60's in my shop.

I don't know how this aspect will work with Walnut but I don't think it will hurt. I look forward to Dick's experience.


When NOT to use BLO and other oils: When using ebonies and oily woods, BLO and other oils over the wood just prior to using CA - this often causes the CA to not adhere as well. The built up layers of CA will often "lift" from oily wood blanks on the ends - usually when taking the bushing off of the blank, and it will be noticeable. Some people use alcohol (which can cause cloudiness) to wipe down the oily blanks before applying CA. Others will spray "Accelerator" on the bare oily woods and wipe it off before applying the CA. Alcohol and Accelerator removes the surface oils of those woods and helps in the CA adhesion.

[Whaler]

I tried the Walnut Oil/CA finish and the results are:
The walnut Oil doesn't darken the wood like BLO.
The walnut Oil is more pleasant to use.
The Walnut Oil works just as good as BLO.

I'll post a picture in a new thread.

[gerti]

I tried the Walnut Oil/CA finish and the results are:
The walnut Oil doesn't darken the wood like BLO.
The walnut Oil is more pleasant to use.
The Walnut Oil works just as good as BLO.

I'll post a picture in a new thread.

What a great bunch of people here! Thanks to Dick for testing, and to Hank for the details.

[Denco]

Excellent information. Thank you so much, All, for your input. I've obtained a few different products to try, I've watched the videos several times, and I'm ready to go out and start the learning curve. Appreciate the info. Knew I came to the right place.--Den

[BigguyZ]

I'll throw in my two cents. I know how to apply a brilliant CA finish. But the problem I have is that I've had too many finishes crack all over and/ or separate from the ends of the barrels. Perhaps it's old CA, but I really try to buy fresh stuff when I start to de several pens at a time.

As a result, I've moved to using water based poly. Dries fast, cures pretty fast too. I do a dip or two, then I sand/ polish it to a high shine. Looks and works great, and I haven't had any complaints yet. (though admittingly I've used it for fewer pens).

Gerti/ anyone in the TC area. My shop's a mess, but I'd still be more than happy to show you my setup and show you how I apply my finish (both CA and poly). Just give me a bit of a heads up, and we can hang out for a few hours.