Question about Pen Turning Accessories

[phrog]

I'm anxious to start pen turning but am a little confused about what I need.

1. I'm assuming that a pen mandrel is needed but can I use the same mandrel for turning a Euro-Style pen and a cigar pen?

2. I'm looking at this one: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKM-FLC.html
Is a larger shaft needed for the cigar pen and can separate shafts be obtained for this kind of mandrel setup?

3. Is a barrel trimmer necessary or can one just use a Forstner bit on a DP?

4. And lastly, do I need a special tailstock center to use with the mandrel? (60 degree or otherwise)

Any other suggestions or comments would be welcome.

Thanks.

[Whaler]

I quit using a mandrel some time ago and turn between centers. This requires both a 60* live center and drive center.
If you wish to use a mandrel the one you listed is fine, the 7mm shaft is standard.
A barrel trimmer is a must as the blank ends need to be square to the tube.
With the mandrel you should use a 60* live center in the tail stock.

[RayintheUK]

I did a page a while back about the basic equipment and the process - it's here if you get the time.

Ray

[Uncle Cracker]

Good info in previous posts... One other thing: Here is a must-bookmark site for pen turning info...

[phrog]

Thanks, Dick, for the reply - useful info there and answered most of my questions. I will definitely get a barrel trimmer after reading your msg.

Thanks to Ray for the very informative tutorial. A picture is truly worth a thousand words and your video showed me many things that the books I've scanned lacked. Wish I had seen the video a couple weeks ago and it would have saved me a trip to the library. Also, nice lathe, Ray.

And again, thank you, to UC for answering some questions on a previous thread and for sharing the link that has a lot of useful information.

One question I still have, though - is the pen mandrel universal for all kits or do I need more than one mandrel for different kinds of kits - I don't understand how one mandrel could be used for different diameter pens unless the brass tubes are a standard size.

Again, thanks to all.

[woodturner]

I did a page a while back about the basic equipment and the process - it's here if you get the time.

That looks like a great introduction to pen turning.

One thing I do differently is to use a dead center on the tailstock. Live centers use ball bearings, which need to have a certain amount of "play" to function. As a result, the mandrel will tend to "wobble" very slightly with a live center.

When I use the dead center, I adjust the center so there is maybe 0.0001 of play, and the mandrel doesn't wobble more than that.

One additional advantage of a dead center is that it doesn't damage to tool if the edge touches it.

I also don't use a barrel trimmer, I just trim the barrels with the mandrel and a sanding disk. I mount the mandrel in the tailstock and adjust it to be 1/8" or so short of the sanding disk in the headstock. I place the barrel over the mandrel, start the lathe, and manually push the end of the barrel against the sanding disk to sand the end square and to length.

[warrenp]

Richard...welcome to pen turning.

You can use one mandrel for almost all of the pens. You use bushings that are unique to each pen style to hold the pen blank. These bushings typically cost $2-4.

Another investment you will need to make is a drill bit for each size of pen tubes. I already have at least 8 special drill bits.

Warren

[phrog]

Thanks Woodturner for your suggestions. It's good to know that, indeed, there is more than one way to skin a cat. (Although I've never understood why anyone would want to skin a cat - guess that's one of those sayings that has a really colorful coinage.)

Also, thank you warrenp, for answering a question I couldn't figure out.

[guycox]

I'm curious about the mandrel in the tail stock method. -- The end of the tube away from from the quill and towards the headstock must not have a bushing on it. -- so what keeps the tube from flopping around if the tube isn't 7mm.

I do not like the pen mills. It seems like I'm aways snapping the corner off a blank with those things. I'm thinking that maybe a couple of fixtures that have tubes that are the inside diameter of the common tubes would be hot item.. The sanding jig that's commercially available is POC.

[leehljp]

I'm curious about the mandrel in the tail stock method. -- The end of the tube away from from the quill and towards the headstock must not have a bushing on it. -- so what keeps the tube from flopping around if the tube isn't 7mm.

Bushings come in all shapes and sizes for different pens. Bushings are "stepped" to fit inside the tube of larger pens and over the shaft. Below is a link to a set of Cigar pen bushings.

http://www.beartoothwoods.com/catalo...products_id=51

If you decide to begin selling on a commercial level where your pens are scrutinized as pens and works of art, there are another set of bushings for different pens that are available from an individual with his own site. He makes bushings that are to MUCH greater tolerances than commercially available bushings from PSI, Berea, or CSUSA, the three primary suppliers of bushings. John Gooden makes them to such high tolerances that they "plop" when removed. See them here (No, I don't get anything for recommending his products.

If you notice the price, they are considerably higher than commercially available ones. They also will NOT fit on a mandrel and are made to be turned without a mandrel, A.K.A. TBC (Turning between Centers.)

FOR BEGINNERS - bushings are usually considered "consumables" because sanding the end of the tubes hits the bushings and wears them down. The bushings are softer metal and when the chisel "touches" them, small scrapes are taken out without much damage to the chisel. But the bushings will wear quickly.

Learn to use calipers: People who use John's have overcome the tendency to wear the bushings with sandpaper and chisel scratches. As a result, John's and even commercially available bushings "can be" considered one time purchase. The key to this is to use TBC. Once the pen blank size is close to the size of the bushings, QUIT Using the bushing as the guide. Take the bushings off and sand the final size (without the bushings) but use calipers to determine the size. Measure the size of the center band, nib end, and clip end. Sand the blanks to those sizes. USE CALIPERS and precision will be your companion. Use bushings to determine the size - and the bushings will shrink after 10 to 20 pens. Not reliable for the long term.

I do not like the pen mills. It seems like I'm aways snapping the corner off a blank with those things. I'm thinking that maybe a couple of fixtures that have tubes that are the inside diameter of the common tubes would be hot item.. The sanding jig that's commercially available is POC.

I use a sander mill instead of a pen mill most of the time. It takes more time but I get precise fittings this way. Other people use sanders and disk sanders to square up the ends.

[leehljp]

That looks like a great introduction to pen turning.

One thing I do differently is to use a dead center on the tailstock. Live centers use ball bearings, which need to have a certain amount of "play" to function. As a result, the mandrel will tend to "wobble" very slightly with a live center.

When I use the dead center, I adjust the center so there is maybe 0.0001 of play, and the mandrel doesn't wobble more than that.

One additional advantage of a dead center is that it doesn't damage to tool if the edge touches it.

I have turned a considerable number of pens using a live center and I turn mine to tolerances of .001mm often. But weather related humidity swings during seasonal changes - causes enough movement in wood (and in pens) to fluctuate much more than that.

The above said, you did give me an idea. I will have to try that!

[radhak]

I did a page a while back about the basic equipment and the process - it's here if you get the time.

Ray

Ray,
That's a great - and very simple - tutorial. I have not turned any pen despite being 'ready' for it a long time now. I think I can venture forth now!