A couple questions about stabalizing blanks

[BigguyZ]

OK, so I had done some experiments with using acetone + Plexi to stabalize some pen blanks. I have a 2 gal pickle jar, and I just let them sit in the sealed container for a while until they sank. I hadn't had a chance to turn these to see how well it worked, but it seemed to penetrate fairly well. However, I recently picked up a GAST vacuum pump from eBay, and I installed a connector and valve to the jar so I can put a vacuum on the vessel. So now I'm wondering two things:

1) When applying the vacuum to the vessel, the solution bubbles quite a bit initially, then it settles down but continues to bubble while the pump is running. Does that mean it's still pulling air from the wood, or is the pressure just so little that the acetone is actually boiling?

2) Is it safe for the acetone gas/ vapor to run through the pump? I have a drier attached to the inlet, but I want to make sure that the acetone vapor won't destroy/ corrode the pump's internals. I do "flush" the pump afterwards by just letting it run connected to nothing afterwards.

Or course, I'm looking forward to using the pump to do some veneering projects, but blank stabilization is a big reason I bought this thing as well. Are there better solutions to stabilize with? I've heard of using straight poly, but the acetone+plexiglass method seems like it's work better.


Thanks!

[Whaler]

I can't answer your question but there is a ton of information on the IAP site.

[BigguyZ]

Yeah, I can't rememeber my password, and I can't get to my personal email to check it at work.

Any I figured that you guys are all pretty smart too, why not ask here as well?

[Uncle Cracker]

Not my best subject, but I thought most folks were stabilizing in pressure pots, rather than in vacuums... As to the recipes, I think everybody has their own for "homebrews". One commercial formula that does have a good reputation (and I think you do use vacuum) is called Ultraseal.

[leehljp]

1. Not sure about that. Does the setup leak at all? IF not, with the pump off, after a few minutes (10-15) it should stop IMO. I usually leave vacs on for about 30 minutes on average - mainly because I go do something else and come back later. I hate to just sit there and wait. 10 - 15 minutes on average should be enough time, but since I am old school, I tend to overkill.

2. I have a small portable regular air compressor in which I use the input side as my vac. I learned that after a few times I was getting corrosion (rust) in the head due to moisture. The acetone fumes pulled moisture in with it and caused a small amount of rust. I still use this setup because I cannot find an inline filter over here. About once every 6 months I remove the head and clean it and it is still going fine.

On the above setup, I could be wrong but I don't think it is the acetone vapors itself but the condensation that is caused when moisture is pulled in or comes in with the acetone itself. A filter should help. The corrosion was moisture rust, not acidic.

This is just my experience and don't know if my perceptions were 100% accurate.

[Russianwolf]

I seem to remember that Acetone boils in a vacuum. So putting your solution in a vacuum is likely boiling off the acetone.

[seabat]

OK, so I had done some experiments with using acetone + Plexi to stabalize some pen blanks.
1) When applying the vacuum to the vessel, the solution bubbles quite a bit initially, then it settles down but continues to bubble while the pump is running. Does that mean it's still pulling air from the wood, or is the pressure just so little that the acetone is actually boiling?

I call it foaming and you call it bubbling. As long as you see them it is still penetrating the wood.

2) Is it safe for the acetone gas/ vapor to run through the pump? I have a drier attached to the inlet, but I want to make sure that the acetone vapor won't destroy/ corrode the pump's internals. I do "flush" the pump afterwards by just letting it run connected to nothing afterwards.

There is a filter on your pump and/or line correct? I use an air compressor and a venturi. I do have a 12v tire pump I need to finish that will be vacuum only for this purpose.

Are there better solutions to stabilize with? I've heard of using straight poly, but the acetone+plexiglass method seems like it's work better.

I've used plexi + acetone, plexi + MEK, white construction foam + acetone and I've used Minwax Wood Hardener.

But for a home-brew what I currently use and thanks to Russ Fairfield for doing a demo on this at our club meeting is simply White Carpenters Glue and water mixed 50-50.

I fill the pickle jar with this mixture and add the blanks and then apply vacuum and in 10-15 minutes the wood is penetrated (stops foaming) and I pull them out and set aside to dry.

[leehljp]

I used watered down white glue (50/50) for model airplane covering instead of the "dope" finish many years ago and it worked well for that. Now for a stabilizing agent? Gotta try it!

[BigguyZ]

Glue and water? I guess that makes sense, but I'd think it'd have a negative coloring affect on the wood... Would that work as well to dye blanks? I read of some people doing the home made plexi+ acetone+ transtint to dye their lighter woods other colors. That sounds cool too.

To follow up my previous post- I came up with a simple way to tell if the bubbling/ foaming is aire still being pulled form the acetone, or if it's the acetone boiling off. I took the blanks out, and left the solution in. Simple enough, eh? And yes, under full vacuum the acetone does boil at room temp. It does it more so with the wood in the solution, because the rough texture acts as a nucleation site for the solution. (see the Mentos Mythbusters episode for more information, and any page about super heated water).

So yeah, I'm not so sure about that method anymore.

On another note- are most pumps rated for continuous use? I was just putting the vacuum on, and then using a ball valve to seal the vessel (though there's a slow leak between the lid and the jar).

Thanks!

[seabat]

I used watered down white glue (50/50) for model airplane covering instead of the "dope" finish many years ago and it worked well for that. Now for a stabilizing agent? Gotta try it!

I remember those days ...

[seabat]

Glue and water? I guess that makes sense, but I'd think it'd have a negative coloring affect on the wood... Would that work as well to dye blanks? I read of some people doing the home made plexi+ acetone+ transtint to dye their lighter woods other colors. That sounds cool too.

WHITE glue ... don't use the yellow. White dries clear.

On another note- are most pumps rated for continuous use? I was just putting the vacuum on, and then using a ball valve to seal the vessel (though there's a slow leak between the lid and the jar).

I don't know about your model but I use a ball valve on mine ... can't see having it run just to run. Get it to start foaming, close the valve and the compressor shuts off and if it leaks through the lid before done I just turn it back on.

I have never tried to 'dye' any wood but I suppose I wood try a water soluble dye first and the the white glue.

[BigguyZ]

So what qualifies as white glue? Titebond's pretty white.... Or is there another brand/ brands to look for?

[seabat]

So what qualifies as white glue? Titebond's pretty white.... Or is there another brand/ brands to look for?

The TT I use is yellow tinted. The pic in the first photo is Gorilla Glue that I got at HD and is white.

HD has it in 16oz size for $5.87 and Walmart carries it in 8oz for around $4.00

I don't know if the TT will dry clear or yellow. I do use TTIII to glue my bark rings together and don't notice the ring nor the color of it.

[BigguyZ]

I guess I'll be safe and get the Gorilla glue.

How is the finish with just the stabalized blank polished? I heard with the plexi stabilizers, the blank will keep a good polish with just that, since it's impregnated with plexi. Is that the case with glue? I like the idea of having a durable wood blank with the ease of an acrylic. Doing the CA finished has lead to a couple of frustrating results...

Thanks!

[seabat]

I guess I'll be safe and get the Gorilla glue.

I have to check my posts as I'm carrying on this conversation also on a rod building forum to make sure I don't double post answers.

The TT may work just fine and dry clear I just don't know.

I checked the bark rings I had glued together with TT III (needs to be water proof) for a fly rod handle and it appears to be brown in color to me and you cannot see a glue line so it may dry clear.

Here you can see a pic of Sweet Acacia (bottom) that I'm mailing out and this was stabilized in the white glue and it dries clear.

How is the finish with just the stabalized blank polished? I heard with the plexi stabilizers, the blank will keep a good polish with just that, since it's impregnated with plexi. Is that the case with glue?

With the white glue it is stabilized to turn without blowing chunks out of the wood.

Even with my MEK + Plexi I still apply a finish after turning just to make sure it will polish up nice. Habit.

I like the idea of having a durable wood blank with the ease of an acrylic. Doing the CA finished has lead to a couple of frustrating results...

I've been lucky I guess ... never a problem doing CA ... now CA + BLO is another story.