Live tailstock center

[Whaler]

I just got a Woodriver live center from Woodcraft. At $19.99 I was doubtful of the quality when I ordered it but I gave it a try today and it gets 5 stars in my book.
https://www.woodcraft.com/product.as...FamilyID=21120

[ragswl4]

I just got a Woodriver live center from Woodcraft. At $19.99 I was doubtful of the quality when I ordered it but I gave it a try today and it gets 5 stars in my book.
https://www.woodcraft.com/product.as...FamilyID=21120

So if you don't mind, what did this replace and how is it better? I have a Rikon lathe which came with a live center and being a novice I guess I might need to upgrade the standard one but would like to know how the one you have is better than what you were using before. Thanks.

[leehljp]

So if you don't mind, what did this replace and how is it better? I have a Rikon lathe which came with a live center and being a novice I guess I might need to upgrade the standard one but would like to know how the one you have is better than what you were using before. Thanks.

If you are doing pens, it works for the mandrel, or without the mandrel. Most wood lathes come with a tail stock live center made for holding wood. Mandrels, for pen turning are metal of course, and therefore need the 60° live centers, which are a metal turning standard of sorts. The mandrels have a cup in the end - machined to 60°. A wood live center has a much narrower point and the tip can bend easily when pulled up tight to the mandrel, which will cause the pens to be out of round.

[Whaler]

That was a perfect answer Hank.

[ragswl4]

That was a perfect answer Hank.

Thanks Hank. Yes I just mostly do pens when using the lathe. So another excuse to get another accessory.

[DonHo]

One thing to consider when buying a 60 degree live center for use with pen mandrel is the hardness of the metal in the live center. The first one I bought ( I think from PSI but not sure ) was made of softer metal and after just a little while of use it was worn down by friction from the mandrel. The one I use now, I got from Grizzly and is made from much harder metal.

DonHo

[peter08]

re: live centers

Wow. This is a very interesting discussion to me. I'm on the metal working side of life and not the woodworking field so much, but I do have a question about your experience with live centers. We use a spring loaded live center for screw machines. The purpose is to provide some flexibility when the part heats up and expands, or if you're making a real strong cut into the metal and there is a chance for deflection. Is there any reason you would need that type of capablity when turning a wood product?

[leehljp]

Wow. This is a very interesting discussion to me. I'm on the metal working side of life and not the woodworking field so much, but I do have a question about your experience with live centers. We use a spring loaded live center for screw machines. The purpose is to provide some flexibility when the part heats up and expands, or if you're making a real strong cut into the metal and there is a chance for deflection. Is there any reason you would need that type of capablity when turning a wood product?

It might work, but in my opinion, it might cause problems for some. I just noticed one early problem - those live centers are straight shanked. The vast majority of live centers for pen turning (and other wood turning) are MT2. There are some MT1's used. It also looks like those in the link that you gave would be basically cost prohibitive for pen turning.


Let me describe the problems and where they occur.
1. When turning the pen on a mandrel, sometimes the mandrel flexes from too much side pressure from the user when the blade becomes lightly dull; Not everyone has this problem but it happens enough. Anything that allows for movement will allow even more movement. The solution would be to keep the blade SHARP and the spring loaded live center would keep the ideal pressure.

2. Too tight of a live center from over tightening the tail stock. IN this case, if the spring had the right tension, the spring loaded live center would be ideal.

3. Wrong live center as mentioned in previous posts.

4. Too loose of a live center. Believe it or not, but some people are so afraid of over tightening too much that they don't tighten it enough. For this kind of person, the spring (with correct spring pressure) would do ideal.

5. Bent mandrels.

6. Bushings too loose on mandrel or in pen tubes.

7. Bushing's hole drilled Off Center or OOR.

8. Pen blanks not squared at the ends and tightened on the mandrel - will cause the blank to cant".

9. Over tightening the mandrel nut, especially when turning two/both blanks simultaneously - the over tightening causes the same thing to happen as in number 8 above.

Mandrel-less:
There is another method of turning pens that is gaining momentum called mandrel-less, or No-mandrel and also as "Turning between Centers". This uses a dead drive in the head stock and a live center in the tail stock. With either the bushings (or without the bushings in some cases) the pen blank is placed between the two centers and turned and finished. This method eliminates about 80% - 90% of the problems associated with turned blanks being Out Of Round.

The spring loaded center's effectiveness would be dependent upon its tension, but I don't know how much that is. In the past week on the pen forum, I started a discussion on pen tube flaring. A few people have mentioned over several months that they were "afraid" of using the Mandrel-less method because they are afraid if they put too much tension on the blanks that are placed directly between the centers, the the tubes would flair. (Their inexperience in knowing correct tightness/pressure.)

It seems that your suggestion would be ideal for this. HOWEVER, it was my opinion that the opposite effect would occur. A couple of people with experience, and from my experience, we have come to the conclusion that being TOO LOOSE is the cause for tubes flaring, not too much tail stock pressure. What happens is when the tail stock is a tad too loose, the tubes slip from too much pressure from sanding and rubbing too hard. It is the 'slippage' that flares the ends of the tubes. A spring loaded live center would allow for slippage for the inexperienced, and then flared tubes result.

For the experienced, it could work, but not a necessary help.

These are my experiences and opinions, others may vary.

[wassaw998]

I have the "same" 60 degree live center from PSI - looks like the one in the woodcraft link and the exact same price, maybe they are the same, who knows. The "shiney coating" on the center scratches easy but that's the only issue I've had with it, and I do use it for pens in my mandrel and the pt is fine. Besides the coating I love the center.