PSI vs Craft Cupplies

[paulstenlund]

I was putting together an order for PSI to replace a bunch of pen turning supplies when I came upon a post (Ray in the UK) on turning pens and he mentioned Craft Supplies. Their prices are much better than PSI. Any thing to worry about like glue, bit quality, etc.

Thanks
Paul

[Russianwolf]

Craft Supplies is good stuff for the upper end pens. I wouldn't touch the apprentice line though.

You should also check out www.arizonasilhouette.com
and www.beartoothwoods.com

Do yourself a favor and stay away from gold platings except for Gold Titanium. Chrome is very durable but inexpensive compared to the Platinum/Rhodium.

[just started]

Where should I go for total-novice starter kits?

[final_t]

My two cents:

In terms of quality, from low to high, is PSI, Berea (aka Woodcraft/Beartooth woods, etc), and Craft Supplies. I can't speak to Augum's Pen Works or Arizona Silhouette, but both of those look like Berea.

I don't know your skill level, but I assume you've done some messing about with turning and know the general stuff.
All kits are basically the same: drill some wood, glue tube, square/trim ends, turn to match the bushings, finish, assemble.
That being said, I would suggest if possible to hit up your local Woodcraft and talk to the folks there - you might get lucky and get someone who gives a flip, or get the grumpy old fart that makes you never come back.
If you don't have a local Woodcraft or Rockler even, then mail order some slimline kits. All three above will sell you them, but I've found PSI's to be lesser quality except for their copper slimlines.
Be ready to wreck a few turnings and be willing to turn the wood back down to the brass. Avoid the plastic as first, but be willing to step up to it later. Speaking of which, avoid PSI's plastic, it's cheap stuff that chips out badly.

[DonHo]

I've bought from most of the places mentioned. Augum's sell both PSI and Berea kits as well as having some of their own brand. Arizona Silhouette sells only Berea kits. Both their service is good. I have bought a lot from PSI and have found most of their older kits to be cheap quality (as are Augum's low end line and CS cheap line), but they have just added a few high end pens that seem like good quality. The Majestic jr and Majestic are are good quality but cost $25-$30 each so they need to be. I have a good opinion of the tools, and supplies I've bought from PSI. I haven't bought too much from Arizona Silhouette but have been happy with what I have bought( I think the Berea kits may be a little higher on the quality scale).

DonHo

[just started]

T, thanks for the fast response. I am a novice to turning of all types, having taken one 3 hour class at the 'show' in York last fall. There is a Woodcraft about an hour away but I have generally found the staff to all be in the G.O.F. model. Why start with slimline rather than a nice fat fountain pen? Also, do the kits contain all the tools I will need other than the lathe and chisels?

[final_t]

No, they do not. A kit will contain the brass tubes, the clip, and mechanical parts. You will need to have the proper drill bit (which is usually specific to the kit type, but all slimlines from all vendors use a 7mm), and a barrel trimmer.

As for a slimline vs something else, it's terms of cheapness of the kit (less than $2 vs around $12) and simplicity: a slimline generally is just a straight flat cut, which, surprisingly, is one of the hardest things to master!

Since you haven't turned much at all, I would get some maple or whatever else is available, rip some 1" or so strips off, and mount those between centers, and practice, practice, practice. Make kindling. Learn the proper stance, and a good solid, but relaxed, grip. Roll some beads and coves. See how smooth you can make the cut without using sandpaper. Go all zen on it.

Hit up your local library and see if they have any books on the subject, and also visit a bookstore and see if they carry the woodturning magazines. Sometimes PWW and Wood have a turning article, but not often.
If you can find it, I would try to rent, borrow, or get on eBay a video titled "turning pens with kip and rex" which might be of use for you.

Also don't be shy about seeing if there is a local woodturning guild. Maybe you'll get lucky there.

Now, a word of warning: turning can be the most expensive and addicting part of woodworking, right up there with collecting handplanes. The basics are a lathe, a set of tools, and sharpening equipment. The latter is actually the hardest to get without getting ripped off, because there is so many variations and whatnot. But a dull tool (they they go dull FAST) is a sure-fire way to get tear-out, or worse, a catch and have the wood come off and hit you.

T, thanks for the fast response. I am a novice to turning of all types, having taken one 3 hour class at the 'show' in York last fall. There is a Woodcraft about an hour away but I have generally found the staff to all be in the G.O.F. model. Why start with slimline rather than a nice fat fountain pen? Also, do the kits contain all the tools I will need other than the lathe and chisels?

[BigguyZ]

I've found that practice is the most important thing with turning of any kind.

For me, the biggest improvements for the quality of my pens has been to dump the mandrel and use a dead center/ live center combo. Even for the rough cutting... Also, use SHARP tools. And finally, dump the bushings and use a digital caliper and creep up on the final diameter. I've had too many pens ruined by crappy bushings. Either they get turned down to nothing, or they are out of round. You can buy cusom higher-end bushings, but I really don't find it necessary to use them at all.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Edit:
As far as CSUSA versus AS, versus PSI- I've found them all to be comparable. All 3 also have excellent service. I've had PSI send me a replacement Atlas transmission for free when I didn't even buy the kit from them!

I also have to agree about the platings. Especially if you're selling the pens. Titanium gold is the only gold I"ll buy. Chrome is durable, and is a good low-cost option for silver-colored kits. The nicer platings are an absolute MUST to get a premium price, and the more expensive kits don't even come in a cheaper plating.

Finally, I would highly recomend going to www.penturners.org. Lots of good information there. Use the serch feature, check out the library, see some of the amazing work, and know that you can get just as good with a lot of practice.

[Russianwolf]

Where to start?

Arizona Silhouette has the Chrome Slimline kits for $1.75 each (you won't find a kit much cheaper, but still have nice quality).

The Slimline is in my opinion one of the more difficult kits to turn, so once you master it, you can go pretty much to any other kit without much problem. The Slimline also offers a lot of creative possibilities. I rarely ever turn a slimline bushing to bushing (straight) anymore. you can see a couple possibilies on my site's Penworks and Gallary pages. The long solid pens are even made from Slimline kits.

Another nice pen that isn't too expensive is the Cigar, it has a lot more heft and is easier to turn as there is a lot more meat on the finished pen. I think AS has the chrome ones for $4 each.

Don't forget to buy bushings for the kits in addition to the drill bits and trimmer mentioned already.

Oh, on the drillbits, get one of the big sets (120ish piece) from HF or in my case Tractor Supply. It will give you all the bits you will ever need and they only cost the amount of a couple of the bits purchased individually. And mine no-names drill nice round holes.

Oh, and seach youtube for "pen turning" there are some demo videos out there, as well as bowl turning and wood turning.

[BigguyZ]

I agree with Mike on the HF drillbit set. They typically have 112 bit sets, which include all of the bits in 1/64th increments, the lettered bits, and the numbered bits. Also, PDI has a 29 piece Metric brad point set for around $30. Those together should make up just about every single drill bit you'll ever need for a pen....

[wassaw998]

BigguyZ - so you are mounting the brass tube straight on the dead/live center ? I've seen some special bushings for turning between centers (ie, not using a mandrel) , take it your're not using bushings? Do you need to be careful about flaring the ends of the tubes?

[BigguyZ]

I indeed do turn with the brass right on the centers. I've had too many kits ruined from out of round bushings. Also, I actually turn the woods smaller than the kits, as the finish is built up to the correct diameter. Otherwise, the wood will be at the bushing/kit diameter, and you'll have a ridge the thickness of your finish at the transition between the tubes and the hardware...

Also, although I've see some minor flaring of the tubes if I crank down a bit too hard, most hardwar pieces press fit further down from the flaring, and it doesn't affect fit. I think the Classic Americans are teh only that I'd use a bushing for, and that's just because you have to turn dorn to bare brass for the tennon.

But really- too much pressure with or without bushings can damage the blank. Best thing is to have it secure, yet as light as possible. Then use sharp tools!

[wassaw998]

Thanks - I want to give this a shot. The dead center is just a 60 degree tip (same with live?). like this one: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1890&category=

[BigguyZ]

Thanks - I want to give this a shot. The dead center is just a 60 degree tip (same with live?). like this one: http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1890&category=

Yup, that's it.

While you're at it- do yourself a favor and pick up a drill chuck as well. Here's the set I got. I've actually used the additional tooling that comes with the starter set (versus just the chuck for the same $$).

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...1796&category=

Edit- do you have a digital caliper? If not, Rockler and HF both have the same model for a decent price... That's absolutely necessary to turn w/o the bushings...