What tools are needed for pen turning?

[Hoover]

quote:Originally posted by germdoc

Quick question--

I have a 40" lathe that I will be using for spindles, candelsticks, etc. Is it suitable for pen turning, or would I be better off getting a mini-lathe for pens? On that note, any thoughts on the Wilton mini-lathe on sale at Menards for real cheap?

Both my father and brother have that lathe. It runs very smooth, but the 2/5 hp (rated) motor seems a little underpowered. But, if you are just wanting to use it for pen turning it should do the job for you.

[DaveinFloweryBranchGA]

Jeff,

I've learned through my research and questions on the forums about pen turning that the size of the lathe isn't as critical for pen turning as the runout of the lathe combined with the runout of the accessories. Alignment of the head and tailstock seems to be critical, as does the runout of the assorted accessories when mounted on the lathe and the runout issues can be additive as you put the accessories on the lathe.

All that said the lathe you already have should do the job if it's got decent runout. And I bet that big lathe you mentioned in the other post should handle pens and anything else you throw at it. I think I'd check on wether the threads on that other lathe are standard for US accessories before I buy though.

I'm not positive, but I think the purpose of the mini/midi lathe is to give folks an opportunity to try out turning and see if they like it without a big investment in a machine.

A lot of folks (like me) buy the HF 34706 because it's bigger than the mini/midi's, offers more capacity, but actually costs less when on sale and combined with their 20% off coupon, thereby representing an excellent value. It has it's flaws, but these are generally known and if you get a bad one, Harbor Freight is easy to deal with to get an exchange. I've been real suprised on how nice mine was for what I paid ($160.00 brand new). But I'm not super picky about "pretty" issues. I'm used to work with industrial tools, which were generally ugly as sin in battleship grey.

On the other hand, the mini/midi's can probably be taken into a spare bedroom and set up with a dust collector without too much trouble, while anything bigger cannot.

[DaveinFloweryBranchGA]

quote:Originally posted by pnctar

A barrel trimmer is a must. IMHO the combo kit from Penn State/Ryan is the best bang for the buck.

For a pen press all you need is a clamp. I use a 3/4 pipe clamp that has UHMW attached to the faces.

Since you also have a BS, make sure you keep all the scraps from your pens. They'll come in real handy when you start contrasting your woods.

I was looking real hard at the Penn State barrel trimmer combo kit before. Have you had decent customer service with them? Who is Ryan? Do you have a link for Ryan?

I was thinking on the pen press deal. That's one of the best ideas yet, as I alrady have a bunch of 3/4" pipe clamps and pipe. All I need is a little plastic. I can get a chank of that at Ace Hardware.

On the bandsaw, I used to save all my cutoffs from various jobs. I have a bucket or two full of cut offs large enough to use as pen blankets after they're shaped up. Do most folks cut those to 3/4" X 3/4" or 1/2" X 1/2"?

[pnctar]

quote:Originally posted by DaveinFloweryBranchGA

quote:Originally posted by pnctar

A barrel trimmer is a must. IMHO the combo kit from Penn State/Ryan is the best bang for the buck.

For a pen press all you need is a clamp. I use a 3/4 pipe clamp that has UHMW attached to the faces.

Since you also have a BS, make sure you keep all the scraps from your pens. They'll come in real handy when you start contrasting your woods.

I was looking real hard at the Penn State barrel trimmer combo kit before. Have you had decent customer service with them? Who is Ryan? Do you have a link for Ryan?

I was thinking on the pen press deal. That's one of the best ideas yet, as I alrady have a bunch of 3/4" pipe clamps and pipe. All I need is a little plastic. I can get a chank of that at Ace Hardware.

On the bandsaw, I used to save all my cutoffs from various jobs. I have a bucket or two full of cut offs large enough to use as pen blankets after they're shaped up. Do most folks cut those to 3/4" X 3/4" or 1/2" X 1/2"?

Ryan setup a company called http://www.woodturningz.com/SlimlinePenKits.aspx. He offers Penn State products + at discounted prices ... and some of the best customer service around. Call and talk with them, they know what they're talking about. (Not affiliated, just a very satisfied customer myself.)

Guess I actually need to articulate a little better on the cutoffs ... was refering to the pen cut offs (i.e. small 1/2" or 3/4" peices) because you'll find your self cutting the pen blanks into smaller and smaller peices and putting them back together, then turning. But, yes I've used my extra walnut, maple, cherry and teak to cut into pen blanks and have purchased wood by the BF just to cut into pen blanks. Size will depend on the type pen your making. If you're making just 7mm slimlines 1/2 x 1/2 is fine. As you progress into the 10mm (cigar pens) it will have to go upto the 5/8 x 5/8 or possibly 3/4 x 3/4. Most folks that I know cut their stock to 3/4 x 3/4 because this is typical thickness and doesn't require further milling of any type. (Us WW'ers are still lazy when it comes down to it )

The "pen press" I use was actually purchased from Rockler at the end of the pen turning class I took with them. It's the one that has feet long enough that it stands on it's own and you're still able to crank it. (I'll attach a pic it you want...)

On another note ... I also use the HF 34706 for all my turning. Love it. Just make sure that you have some way to sharpen your tools, DAMHIKT. It will save you ALOT of frustration down the line.

[kwgeorge]

I have been reading this thread and think I would like to put forth my 2 cents on these questions. Turning pens requires very little investment above and beyond the purchase of the lathe and the basic tools. In reality you could turn the pen using nothing but the roughing gouge and still make good pens.

There have been comments about mandrel run-out but I can’t help but wonder about these. A pen mandrel works between lathe centers and uses a thin metal rod so with that even if you had run-out your opposing live center would bring the rod back to centerline. So the problems are not necessarily with the mandrel but with the setup of it. In setting up the mandrel on the lathe there are a couple of critical things to be considered for success. The first is that your headstock and tailstock are in alignment with each other. If this is not the case you will find that your pen blank looks good on the headstock side but appears out of round at the tailstock side. I also noticed comments about the live center not fitting well. The mandrels are counter bored at 60 degrees and most lathes do not come with a live center that has a 60 degree point but instead are much sharper. What ends up happening is that the mandrel rod is harder than the live center tip so it will ruin the tip of the live center. It will also allow for movement at the point of contact. A nice #2 Morse Taper 60 degree live center can be purchased from Harbor Freight for $19.99. Another potential problem that can give you trouble is over tightening the tailstock quill. Again the mandrel rod is long and thin and can bend and flex very easily. So trouble shooting issues with a mandrel become rather easy, 1) if everything is fine on the headstock side but the surface of the wood on the tailstock side appears out of round then you either have issues with the alignment headstock to tailstock or the live center. 2) If the center of the pen blanks appear out of round you have the tailstock to tight. 3) If the headstock side appears out of round or the mandrel shows wobble on the headstock side then you have a bad mandrel (I actually had one of these).

You really don’t need a pen press for assembly unless you just simply wish to buy one. An Erwin Quick Clamp works very well and I have assembled hundreds of pens with one without issue.

Here is a couple of write ups I did on pen making to get people started. I hope you find a little value.

Slimline
http://www.theturnersshop.com/turnin...en/slpen1.html

Modified Slimline
http://www.theturnersshop.com/turnin...od/slmod1.html

Harbor Frieght Live Center
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38573

[DaveinFloweryBranchGA]

kwgeorge,

I have some questions about your post and I did read your website links. I also copied them to a word doc for my LOML to read. I hope you don't mind. I cut and pasted your statements and have some questions that I think would help someone new to the pen turning business and likely to turning itself. I've made things with my lathe, but mostly have played with it to get used to it.

"Turning pens requires very little investment above and beyond the purchase of the lathe and the basic tools. In reality you could turn the pen using nothing but the roughing gouge and still make good pens."

What mandrel type would you recommend? I noticed you had a MT2 mandrel in you Slim Line pen document, but seemed to have changed to a slightly different style in your Modifed Slim Line Pen document. I have the MT2 setup and could go that way, but which would end up being better? I can only afford to buy once (I'm in college right now.), so I need to be cautious with my purchases. I have the well known set of HF lathe tools. Is there any reason for me to buy the smaller 3 piece set of "pen turning chisels?"

"So the problems are not necessarily with the mandrel but with the setup of it. In setting up the mandrel on the lathe there are a couple of critical things to be considered for success. The first is that your headstock and tailstock are in alignment with each other. If this is not the case you will find that your pen blank looks good on the headstock side but appears out of round at the tailstock side."

What would be considered a reasonable amount of misalignment? How far apart can the tips of a a live center and a drive center be and the lathe still be useable?


"The mandrels are counter bored at 60 degrees and most lathes do not come with a live center that has a 60 degree point but instead are much sharper. It will also allow for movement at the point of contact. A nice #2 Morse Taper 60 degree live center can be purchased from Harbor Freight for $19.99."

This is blatantly logical. We talked about this earlier in the thread and I found a suitable live center at littlemachineshop.com. I think if the local HF store sells the live center you mention, I may just go and buy it with a 20% off coupone, It's a better center and that would move the price to within 5 bucks of the center from little machine shop.

"Another potential problem that can give you trouble is over tightening the tailstock quill. Again the mandrel rod is long and thin and can bend and flex very easily. So trouble shooting issues with a mandrel become rather easy, 1) if everything is fine on the headstock side but the surface of the wood on the tailstock side appears out of round then you either have issues with the alignment headstock to tailstock or the live center. 2) If the center of the pen blanks appear out of round you have the tailstock to tight. 3) If the headstock side appears out of round or the mandrel shows wobble on the headstock side then you have a bad mandrel (I actually had one of these)."

Thank you for the troubleshooting tips. I'll be using these in the future.

"You really don’t need a pen press for assembly unless you just simply wish to buy one. An Erwin Quick Clamp works very well and I have assembled hundreds of pens with one without issue."

I'm definately going with either a quick clamp or a pipe clamp. Probably the pipe clamp, simply because that doesn't require another purchase.

"Here is a couple of write ups I did on pen making to get people started. I hope you find a little value."

I found them to be of great value. I would like to see a few more pictures of the pen drilling jig you made, as it seems simple, effective and the parts to make it are available in my shop.

Thanks,

Dave

I think I'm getting closer to knowing what I need to buy vs. what I'd like to buy.

[kwgeorge]

Dave, I would be happy to answer your questions. I have about 4 or 5 mandrels including the ones that I have made. The original Mandrels were #2MT with the rod screwed directly into the taper. Now there is really nothing wrong with these types of mandrels until you start working on other kits that are shorter and you have to add a bunch of bushings to compensate. So I decided that I wanted an adjustable mandrel as it would be more flexible as I could shorten the rod length to suite the particular kit I was making. There are two basic models of this Mandrel. The first uses a compression type nut like you would see in plumbing. I did not care for this very much because if you over tighten you will destroy plastic compression ring. I prefer the Collet type sold by Woodcraft and others. This uses a collet to hold the rod and the collet tightens down on the shaft by being drawn into a taper. This makes it self centering and the collet holds better as it is built to grip its whole length. A bit more pricy but you can do more with it. For my more custom mandrels I use a collet chuck system but for pens I like this one.

On the question of Tailstock alignment, in machining offsetting the center of the tailstock in relation to the center of the headstock is commonly done to produce tapers. In pen making this is not a good thing as we want the centerline to be as perfect as possible. You can overcome some small amount of misalignment by sanding with the grain at the offending area. Most lathes have the ability to adjust the headstock some and with my Nova I can adjust the tailstock also. A little tuning on the lathe will go a long way to a better pen.

I have been asked a lot about that little drilling jig I came up with. It works very well and is great at very quick repetitive drilling as once you set it up you can keep drilling blanks with little effort. I have not too much to do today as I am waiting for glue to dry on a cabinet I am making so I will see if I can come up with some plans for that jig.