Cordless Brad Nailer?

[Bill in Buena Park]

I just saw this at the Sears website: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-c3-19...&blockType=G38

Pricey... hard to imagine not using pneumatic nailers - but interested in hearing what others think of this cordless nailer concept.

Oh - and here it is without the "kit": http://www.sears.com/craftsman-c3-19...&blockType=G38

[frumper64]

I have a friend who has a cordless brad nailer and really likes it, but it's a bit too pricy for me. I'll stick with my PC compressor and trusty HF nailers.

[LCHIEN]

from a technical standpoint,
line-powered brad nailers and staplers I have seen just don't don't cut it. They lack the power to drive it home.

The pneumatic nailers work well but of course you need the compressor and hose.

Cordless nailers fall into two categories - battery, and gas-charge nailers

The problem is that the firing a nail takes a large pules of energy in a very short time.

The line-powered electric nailers don't work well because although the electric grid has a huge amount of energy behind it, it is set to provide continuous energy and not short bursts. Its limited by the wire-size which is basically designed to present 15A (although motors typically temporarily draw 5-6 times that when starting). Because the energy is the time multiplied times the power, the stroke only takes milliseconds so even with 1800 watts behind it the energy is limited.

Pneumatic nailers work well with the limited air pressure because the nailer has a small tank (usually the handle) in which air pressure is stored. the air pressure can be pumped up by the compressor motor for several seconds using the 1800 W line power so the energy is accumulated for many times the pulse length. Its the energy storage.

A gas unit works well because the gas charge is fired and the gas has a lot of potential chemical energy that is released. The power rise is fast to release and so you get a lot of energy is a very short impulse.

So the battery units have one advantage: they have a battery which is a energy storage unit. the power available is the amp-hours times the voltage and the energy that can be delivered is a function of how fast can the energy be delivered (e.g. amperes available. Lithium ion batteries have very low internal resistance so they can deliver lots of amps if the wires are short and substantial. So short is good we're talking inches instead of many tens of feet. So potentially the battery nailer is good. It depends on the implementation.

At least that's my technical appraisal as an electrical engineer. I've used air nailers and electric staplers but not battery or gas nailers and staplers.

After a bit more thinking the idea of solenoids powered directly by LiIon batteries is not looking that good. If AC-powered ones can't do it with 120V at 15A, then the Li-Ion battery at 18 or 19 V would have to provide around at least 100A - a bit much in terms of battery internal impedance and wiring and solenoid resistance. More likely they use whats known as flywheel technology - the battery runs a flywheel which is the mechanical-kinetic energy storage which means the battery will be driving the flywheel all the time when you have the unit in the ready more but the good thing is firing the nails can be quick succession. The flywheel transfers energy to the ejection mechanism when the trigger is pulled.

[All Thumbs]

Ryobi has one that uses their 18v batteries. It is awesome. It was $119 before being on sale, I think I got it for < $100. It is certainly one of the tools I will keep after the forthcoming sell-off.

[Condoman44]

A long time ago I went the route of the Paslode cordless for a framing nailer. Over time it was a difficult tool. I was very careful to maintain it and keep it clean, but some days it just would not fire. In frustration I gave up and switched back to the pneumatic guns.

These days I will either take the small hot dog compressor and guns for finish work or use finish screws if it is a small job. Maybe the new generation of cordless nailers is better but, I'll not go there again.

[lrr]

These nailers fill a niche, I guess. Like if you are on the roof, or on a tall ladder, or hate to run a long hose to the work location. One of my favorite pneumatic brad nailers is a Bostitch. Its magnesium body is super light. Not a big deal if you are driving a few nails, but if you are on a ladder driving nails and possibly driving nails with arms raised or overhead, I think that battery pack is going to be a real pain, literally.

I have a portable tank when I dread the thought of snaking a couple long hoses from my compressor up to our second floor, maybe to do some trim work in an upstairs room. It is 11 gallons in capacity, which tends to make it a little heavier than I would like, but it does have pretty good capacity for most small jobs. There are some small tanks about the size of a slender propane cylinder that might be nice to have, and strap it on to a work belt, for the best of both worlds - -lightweight and yet capable of high pressures.

[Hockeynut]

I am old school looked at the Paslode cordless framing nailers years ago but decided to buy a Senco frame pro. Glad I did it, has never failed me but it is a heavy beast. Love my Senco brad nailer over 20 years old with no issues.

[dangre]

The Craftsman unit is the same as the Ryobi. Last I heard, the entire 19.2v line was made by Ryobi. Got the Ryobi unit, P320 18ga nailer, for Christmas. Just a few quick tests, but I was impressed. Drove 1.25" brads below the surface in hard maple, which can be adjusted. Only problem is it tends to jump ahead about 1/16" when fired, but that's probably me. I think this is going to be a keeper.

[Bill in Buena Park]

I'm pretty sure all the C3 tools are rebranded Ryobi which is a plus in my book. Good to hear the Ryobi version seems to perform well. At 6+ pounds with the battery this is on par with their larger cordless drills but heavier than my treasured HF brad nailer.

So what charges and actuates the firing pin on this - there appears to be mention of air on the gun. Would it have its own self contained compressor?

[JimD]

Loring's discussion is interesting, as usual, but doesn't describe how the Ryobi, and apparently the Senco Fusion, work. They contain a little compressor that runs off the battery. So it is a compressed air charge, not the battery directly, that drives the brad. The Ryobi is supposed to drive a brad a second so it must charge up really fast. The Senco apparently uses nitrogen, not air, but I saw nothing that said what the Ryobi compresses. Air is mostly nitrogen anyway so I don't see that it makes any real difference.

I don't have one of these yet but I probably will. I have most of the other 18V tools and I am using them on a project in the attic currently. It is very convenient to not have to be tied to an extension cord and, with the newer lithium ion batteries, they will do about the same things.

Jim

[LCHIEN]

Here, this god article compares the cordless nailer technologies and their pros and cons:

http://blogs.toolbarn.com/2006/03/co...nologies-html/