eliminating the track saws for ripping panels?

[YCF Dino]

from a tracksaw maker...

Hi guys.
here is a simple concept.
a super edge guide with integrated measuring system.
two extendable arms and a sliding edge guide to make a super compact tool.

This is only a concept that we can use your feedback and thoughts.
thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DikHarri.../4/-3Y3ifT4Fgo



ycf dino
eurekazone.

[radhak]

I like the concept - particularly the extendable arms extending both directions.

Two points -
(a) Since the Circ-saw will be provided by me (user), how do I make sure the blade is parallel to the super-edge, and how can this jig help me do that? My earlier experience with such (albeit simpler) CS bracket is that the holes the manufacturer provides to secure the CS do not ensure the CS blade is parallel to the edge, and it is a PITA for me make it so.

(b) The quality of the cut will depend heavily on the straightness of the existing edge. While the first cut might be good (assuming the factory cut was perfect), the next one could be skewed, depending on good the first one was - how parallel the blade was, how steady my hand was, etc. Maybe you should design it such that it could ride against any straight edge I provide it. Which means there should some height clearance on the right side.

Again, not to shoot down your ideas, just throwing some more into the mix. What can I say, I was born a party-pooper !

[thrytis]

It looks like it could get a bit large to handle, though you probably would have to try it out for sure. I would also worry about how well it would do for real wide cuts, 24"+ in from the edge. It does look like an upgrade to the normal rip fence provided by circular saws. The one on mine is only good for rough cutting.

[sailor55330]

I have something similar on a small trim saw, but not that elaborate. It's not that easy to keep the saw guide tight against the edge. I'd have to rip a lot of panels before it was feasible for me.

[YCF Dino]

I like the concept - particularly the extendable arms extending both directions.

Two points -
(a) Since the Circ-saw will be provided by me (user), how do I make sure the blade is parallel to the super-edge, and how can this jig help me do that? My earlier experience with such (albeit simpler) CS bracket is that the holes the manufacturer provides to secure the CS do not ensure the CS blade is parallel to the edge, and it is a PITA for me make it so.

(b) The quality of the cut will depend heavily on the straightness of the existing edge. While the first cut might be good (assuming the factory cut was perfect), the next one could be skewed, depending on good the first one was - how parallel the blade was, how steady my hand was, etc. Maybe you should design it such that it could ride against any straight edge I provide it. Which means there should some height clearance on the right side.

Again, not to shoot down your ideas, just throwing some more into the mix. What can I say, I was born a party-pooper !

a.
This is very important. a must if you want to have good cuts.
we provide alignment ribs on the custom bases that we make.
that insures 100% alignment even if the blade is out by 1/4".

b.the edges on panels are very straight.( edited from square to straight)
the problem is the squareness of the panels.
tests are done daily and the thing works much better than any track that we make.
The problems are before the cut and at the very end.
covering the problems the rest cut is a breeze to make.
I was surprised to see the results and we cut many strips from panels every day.

our other tool that is already in the market works very good with excellent feedback.
that is the ripsizer. A hybrid design of a track and edge guide.
same concept but higher price. not something that anyone can buy.
the big idea is to find ways to lower the entry cost to woodworking with smart tools even if we go against our product line.

a 106" track is a pain to buy, set, transport, align and use.
here is the ripsizer to get the whole concept.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DikHarri.../0/jzBv3FadV40

thanks for the feedback.

[YCF Dino]

It looks like it could get a bit large to handle, though you probably would have to try it out for sure. I would also worry about how well it would do for real wide cuts, 24"+ in from the edge. It does look like an upgrade to the normal rip fence provided by circular saws. The one on mine is only good for rough cutting.

yes, the wider you go...you have to pay attention.
more than 24" is a pain to reach.
we can always learn to remove 12" if we want 36" final size.
like any tool this one has its limitations.
But the ripping capacity is unlimited and is very compact.
I even use linear bearings in a prototype to make it super smooth.
over-designed but I like the fact that you can even remove strips on panels stored vertical.

thanks

[YCF Dino]

I have something similar on a small trim saw, but not that elaborate. It's not that easy to keep the saw guide tight against the edge. I'd have to rip a lot of panels before it was feasible for me.

practice few times.
my first cut was not to be shown anywhere.
after few cuts and pressure applied at the right place
and now I dont even have to lift panels.

the device works but what and how people may see it at first is very important.
I can post a video and measure my cuts ( 3-4) strips with a caliper.
maybe that can help us all to see the good and the bad.
I dont tried a 24" cut yet due to my bad back but I may try it once for the video.

thanks

[radhak]

Wow, that Ripsizer is sure neat! Now I want that - all of that, just a lot cheaper !

No, I (we all, I am sure) understand your need to optimize between efficiency and price, so all power to your 'market research'.

I personally don't see reason to doubt your lab-tests, and just the video(s) should be good enough proof. Don't go around breaking your back (literally) to convince us - you don't have two of those ! Sometimes just seeing the setup is enough to imagine how it would work.

Like these discussions - designing is always a nice armchair exercise!

[YCF Dino]

Wow, that Ripsizer is sure neat! Now I want that - all of that, just a lot cheaper !

No, I (we all, I am sure) understand your need to optimize between efficiency and price, so all power to your 'market research'.

I personally don't see reason to doubt your lab-tests, and just the video(s) should be good enough proof. Don't go around breaking your back (literally) to convince us - you don't have two of those ! Sometimes just seeing the setup is enough to imagine how it would work.

Like these discussions - designing is always a nice armchair exercise!

Thanks.
The ripsizer offers more.
you do all the ripping and remove the arms for all your cross cutting.
One tool that anyone can afford.

Few years back someone posted in smc that if people cant afford to buy the right tools
they deserve what they get. accidents.
that made me so mad that I had to do something to prove him wrong.
safety is something that we all deserve and affordability is priority in any design.

I was a Ryobi user for many years and when I posted that the Ryobi saws have one of the best motors available at any price...they attack me and use the name ez-Ryobi to
talk down our ez inventions and products. At the end we will have fun with the ez-Ryobi=smart and VS superior marketing....

If you like I can email you the facts...
sorry but this kind of thinking was so bad that made me a crazy man.

thanks.

[tommyt654]

I'd rather have a set pf these clamps and this guide for a lot less and still have another tool to use afterwards. These clamps btw are very strong and inexpensive. I have several and have been using them for yrs now without a single one breaking or and type of malfunctions., http://www.ptreeusa.com/edge_clamps_guide-Plates.htm , http://www.ptreeusa.com/edge_clamps.htm#580

[YCF Dino]

I'd rather have a set pf these clamps and this guide for a lot less and still have another tool to use afterwards. These clamps btw are very strong and inexpensive. I have several and have been using them for yrs now without a single one breaking or and type of malfunctions., http://www.ptreeusa.com/edge_clamps_guide-Plates.htm , http://www.ptreeusa.com/edge_clamps.htm#580

Tommy, I have the same clamps and all tracks.
They work nice and I think Peechtree makes a better track system.
But the goal is not to have any track when ripping long panels.
not easy to transport and set one 100" track for ripping.
we can use the tracks for many other applications but the long rips is a pain...I think.

thanks.

[sailor55330]

Can you give an estimate of price? That might help many evaluate the need or value.

[YCF Dino]

Can you give an estimate of price? That might help many evaluate the need or value.

I use linear bearings and some expensive stuff for the prototype.
the production model with 25" capacity I see it as a -$75.00 tool if made in high numbers.
if not, from $85.00 to $125.00...the linear bearing is $35.00 but is not a must.

a simple design can be sold at $100.00 ( in limited numbers) without the linear bearings
high production for less than $80.00

this is just estimates without any exact pricing.
tx

I did use it yesterday and made a video that I will post it later.

[dkerfoot]

To me, all of these are a poor substitute for a sawboard. Google it and you will find many variations, but here is one version for you:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Sawboard

I personally like to cut one side of the baseboard with my circular saw and the other with my router using my favorite dadoing bit.

The beauty of a sawboard over all these other methods (besides being free or close to it) is that the edge lines up on the cut line. Nothing to adjust, no need to do math to figure the offset, just clamp to the cut line, then grip it & rip it.

[pelligrini]

Dino's fence idea looks pretty cool, but you still have to rely on having a good edge on the material.

I'm with Doug, I like using a sawboard too. I have been eying some of the clamps like tommy linked to as well. What I'd like to do is combine the sawboard with a cradle for the tool. The cradle will ride the sawboard fence. Sometimes I'll let my tool wander away from the fence and screw up the cut.

Finding a place for my long sawboard can be a pain in my little shop sometimes.