Pocket holes vs. Biscuits

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  • leehljp
    Just me
    • Dec 2002
    • 8429
    • Tunica, MS
    • BT3000/3100

    #16
    I use both and it depends on the situation. If I were a professional like Cab, I probably would not and probably use special joints.

    I have a PC biscuit cutter and one of the Ryobi small size. I rarely use the Ryobi. I also have two Kreig Pocket Hole systems, one in the States and one in Japan.

    The difference of use comes in - with enough experience to know what I want to do - and what each provides that the other will not for the situation. I don't use pocket holes in areas where the holes can be seen. (I personally don't like the hole fillers either.)
    Hank Lee

    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

    Comment

    • cabinetman
      Gone but not Forgotten RIP
      • Jun 2006
      • 15218
      • So. Florida
      • Delta

      #17
      Originally posted by JimD
      Perhaps I should clarify what I mean by alignment and maybe C'man and I will agree.

      Jim

      I agree with whatever it takes. The long glue ups can be a PITA no matter what method is used. I have a few complaints about biscuits. For those that have used them on long glue ups they may or may not agree.

      In machining the slots, there's running two slots for each biscuit. It may just be my cutter, but there could be a slight tearout outboard of the slot. That has to get cut off if it occurs.

      Then to select the biscuits to be used, and getting each slot glued (and I might add here that the biscuit should also be coated), that getting it all squeezed together can present problems. There may be too much glue, and squeeze out (I call spooging). A biscuit can get skewed and prevent or hinder closing up the gap. Now, in the middle of a process, which there isn't much time, corrective measures have to be taken.

      If a long glue up necessitates using biscuits, I would rather run long grooves, and use a better fitting single spline either in solid wood or plywood. That is a faster procedure that cutting biscuit slots, gluing individual slots, inserting the biscuits, etc. There is also the possibility of a wavy match between the two mating boards with spaced biscuits. Each biscuit, in concert with the properties of each board at the connection point may cure and move in differently than the next biscuit or the third and fifth biscuit (just examples). A single spline works out to be more predictable, IMO.

      But, for alignment, a well prepared glue up using cauls and clamps can be the best way. I also learned the hard way to be overly prepared for every step, so there's no running around for another clamp, or a rag, or anything.
      .

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      • cgallery
        Veteran Member
        • Sep 2004
        • 4503
        • Milwaukee, WI
        • BT3K

        #18
        I think biscuits are great for alignment in one plane. When using biscuits in a 3/4" board edge joint, I can get alignment close enough that a few swipes with sandpaper is all that is needed to finish the joint off.

        I've also done quite a bit of testing of joints with biscuits and I don't agree with the magazine tests on strength, either. They seem to always use a single, smaller biscuit on those tests, when I can cut multiple larger biscuit slots in a fraction of the time it takes for them to make many of the other tested joints.

        So I'm not the least bit embarrassed to admit that biscuits are my go-to method of connecting pieces of wood.

        Disclaimer: I do mostly casework. I wouldn't use biscuits for chairs.

        Comment

        • Ed62
          The Full Monte
          • Oct 2006
          • 6022
          • NW Indiana
          • BT3K

          #19
          Originally posted by leehljp
          I don't use pocket holes in areas where the holes can be seen. (I personally don't like the hole fillers either.)
          I'm a little surprised that this is the only reference to seeing the pocket holes. With biscuits, you won't see these. So pocket holes might not be the best solution where they might be seen.

          Ed
          Do you know about kickback? Ray has a good writeup here... https://www.sawdustzone.org/articles...mare-explained

          For a kickback demonstration video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

          Comment

          • gearbuilder
            Forum Newbie
            • Dec 2007
            • 22
            • N.W. Indiana
            • Delta

            #20
            I am building kitchen cabinets now and using pocket holes to assemble the the face frames and biscuts to attach the frames to the cases.

            The doors will be frame and panel with mortice and tenon.

            Jamie

            Comment

            • Eagan
              Established Member
              • Feb 2006
              • 190
              • bloomington, IN
              • rigid r4512

              #21
              Living up to your motto

              Originally posted by leehljp
              I use both and it depends on the situation. If I were a professional like Cab, I probably would not and probably use special joints.

              I have a PC biscuit cutter and one of the Ryobi small size. I rarely use the Ryobi. I also have two Kreig Pocket Hole systems, one in the States and one in Japan.

              The difference of use comes in - with enough experience to know what I want to do - and what each provides that the other will not for the situation. I don't use pocket holes in areas where the holes can be seen. (I personally don't like the hole fillers either.)

              I can't help it... I notice your comment that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, and that you have a pocket hold jig in the States and another in Japan, and think how great it is that you are living up to your motto.

              Comment

              • leehljp
                Just me
                • Dec 2002
                • 8429
                • Tunica, MS
                • BT3000/3100

                #22
                Originally posted by Eagan
                I can't help it... I notice your comment that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, and that you have a pocket hold jig in the States and another in Japan, and think how great it is that you are living up to your motto.
                I brought most of my tools to Japan with me back in the '80s and '90s. However with three grown daughters back in the States, "Every time" I go back for a few months or even one month, I have all kinds of repairs, fixits and constructs for either them or the grandkids. When $120 for a Kreig or $150 for a good biscuit cutter is compared to the price of a $1000 bunk bed or $500 - $700 single book case, the quality of home made will justify the price of the extra tool. And the prices of the bunk bed or book case mentioned above are for medium end at best.

                When I get back to the States in December for some work just prior to retirement, I will have two sets of tools - one for me and one for grandkids and son in laws. But I do have a few that I will not "loan" out.
                Hank Lee

                Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

                Comment

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