New Stanley planes

[jgrobler]

I have a plane question. I've been dreaming about one of the low angle LV planes, either the jointer, or more likely the jack plane. In the recent Woodcraft flyer I saw that Stanley "reintroduced" their old sweethart line of planes, http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=21287

The price is much closer to affordable, so I'd like to get some comments from people who looked at them, or even tried, and maybe bought one. (nearest WC is 95 miles away, so I won't easily make it), Or even if you just have something else to consider that you want to throw in.

Thanks,

Johan

[radhak]

I have the slightly older Stanley 60-1/2 - somebody gave me a slightly used one. I believe he had paid $65 for it 7 years ago. I love it - it just works great. It balances perfectly into my hand, and the blade stays sharp for a looong time.

And recently I picked up an older Stanley Jack plane. Have not used it much, but it has all the great handling I was hoping for.

The ones in the link look even classier, and maybe worth the 'premium' tag and the price. If I didn't have one already, I'd readily buy it.

[jziegler]

I saw them in the Woodcraft store here on Sunday, but didn't have a lot of time to look at them. They look decent though. I'd guess a little better than the new Woodriver line from Woodcraft, but not as nice as a LV or LN. But you should consider looking for an older used Stanley, Miller's Fall, Sargent or the like. They are the true bargins of the plane world, if you are willing to take the time to fettle them.

Jim

[SARGE..g-47]

I have used the old Stanley block and low-angle block plane for years. I wouldn't consider up-grading to an LV or LN in those cases as the Stanley's work fine. I would make an exception with the LN rabbet plane as the blade actually protrudes slightly on one side so you can get all the way in a corner but.. at the price I will pass as I can achieve it other ways.

I have taken a test drive with the WR's and they are fine. Nothing more than the same Bedrock design used by LN but not as refined. As far as the plane doing the job the LN will do.. it simply will. I have not seen or used the new Sweet-hearts yet but it is the same bevel down design of a Bed-rock and I expect it will perform about the same in acutallty.

But.. if you are a beginner with planes and can afford it... I would go with a bevel up as they are simply easier to use.. more versatile as you can use a different angle blade in one to achieve the same results as say a York Pitch which makes them a way to to if you are going to be a heavy user of hand planes. If not.. I would go the cheaper route and learn to do the fettling.

I have a LV low-angle smoother.. I would like to have a low-angle jack and low angle jointer but.. my current bevel downs get the job done much cheaper and I know how to fettle and change blade angles so not in my personal picture. I would suggest if you are going to get only one plane after you get a low angle block plane.. the low angled jack.

You don't need the jointer unless you fool with large carcasss work or edge joint your stock by use of hand plane. The low-angle jack is a compromise for both the jointer in length and the smoother. If I could only have two planes other than blocks which I use almost every day.. it would be a low-angle smoother and low angle jack.

But.. with all that said... if you are new to planes just get a block and learn from it before you sink big bucks into a hand plane you may not can justify if you do most of your work with power tools. You can go from there based on how comfortable you become with using a hand plane.

Good luck...

[pelligrini]

The lateral lock on the new #4 looks intresting. I haven't tried one, or even held one yet. I did peek at them when I was at woodcraft recently. They appeared to be well made, they had a nice finish throughout.

I picked up a Woodriver #6 fore plane recently. I did have to do a small amout of fettling. It was limited to slightly flattening the chipbreaker and putting a better edge on the iron. I do like using it.

If you're wanting a jointer, the best bargan will be an old stanley-bailey. New planes that size aren't cheap. After watching them on ebay for a few months the average price for a #7 is around $60, that's for a decent user, not a collectors showpiece.

[Tom Miller]

I've had the LV LA Jack for a few years, and I get a lot of use out of it. I also just bought the LV LA block. And that's the extent of the bench planes I use with any regularity. Sarge did a good job pointing out a number of the benefits of bevel-up planes, in general, and I'll reiterate that they're a lot more user friendly, allowing you to get results nearly out of the box.

I use mine for jointing (face and edge); sometimes as a prep for my 'lectric jointer, sometimes by itself. I also use it with a shooting board quite a bit. I have both 25* and 38* bevel blades. I don't really do much smoothing with it -- I'd probably get the 50* bevel blade if I was going to. I assume you can get more blades for the Stanley, too, and grind your own bevels.

As far as LV vs. the new Stanley: it looks like there's a $40 difference in sticker price, but you should add/subtract shipping, sales promotions, etc. for your particular situation.

I haven't seen the new Stanleys up close, but based on pictures and the marketing description here are some possible differences:

1. LV blade is 3/16", Stanley is 1/8" -- would that matter much?

2. LV also offers O1 blades. I like the A2, so not an issue for me.

3. Wings on the Stanley appear shorter than LV -- that could make a difference in shooting board performance, one of the big uses of the LAJ for me.

4. You're on your own for any pre-conceived notions of one company's track record over the other. So, fill in this blank as appropriate. Personally, I make up criteria to support the decision I don't realize I already made with my gut.

If you have any specific ?'s about the LV LAJ, ask away.

Regards,
Tom

[germdoc]

Look very nice--look like they borrowed a lot from Lee Valley designs.

My most-used plane is a LV LA block plane. Use it for champfers and also have the cute ball tail and tall knob. For bench work I have some vintage Stanleys I rehabbed.

Can't have too many planes (so he said before the divorce...)

[BrazosJake]

Ditto what Sarge said. In addition, it's been said that on a bevel-up design, no matter how thick the plane iron is, the cutting edge is unsupported, there's simply no steel behind it.

With regards to a low-angle jack, I'd spend the extra $40 and go with Veritas.

[HauntedBranch]

Which of the planes under discussion are bevel-up and which bevel-down. My particular interest is in block planes.

Phil

[SARGE..g-47]

Which of the planes under discussion are bevel-up and which bevel-down. My particular interest is in block planes.

Phil

Phil... all block planes are bevel up. The difference in a standard block plane and a low angle is the low angle has the blade bedded around 12* degrees and the bed on a standard is more which gives a higher bevel angle when frog angle and tip of iron bevel angle are combined. The lower angle works better on woods as maple which has grain I call squirrelly and will tear out if attacked at too high an angle. The lower angle also makes a cleaner shave on end grain also.

So.. even though I use a standard as much a a low-angle.. if I were to just purchase one.. I would go low-angle first. And important thing to learn if you are going to use hand planes is to learn to read grain. On some species that is difficult (maple is the first that comes to mind) as the grain may switch directions in one piece. Bevel up or bevel down will both tear-out if you are going against the grain. Bevel up just want do it as deep as the blade is set at a lower angle.

For those that use hand planes exclusively.. orienting grain direction one way is one of the most difficult things to do if it's hard to read. In a large panel glue up with grain running opposite directions from one board to another.. the plane can tear out on the adjacent board in the glue up if oriented opposite and the plane iron is allowed to travel over the glue line. Not as critical using a power planer with passes set at very shallow because of blade rotation speed.

Also by skewing the plane (moving it almost side-ways to the grain) you effectively lower the angle on both a low-angle and standard angle. That's as far as I will go as I could sit here all day giving tips on how to but I don't have time. Hand planes are simple but... the techniques to make them work can be very mysterious and may confuse the novice. You have to spend some time with trial and error IMO to begin to understand what to do and what not to do.

Regards...

[HauntedBranch]

Thanks, Sarge and everyone for this informative thread. I hope Johan got as much info from it as I did.

Phil

[pelligrini]

A pretty good source of info is The Handplane Book by Garrett Hack. I got it recently from that book closeout site. I've learned a lot from it on top of everything from this site.

http://www.amazon.com/Handplane-Book.../dp/1561587125

[jgrobler]

Sorry for not getting back sooner, couldn't get online yesterday or earlier today.

Thanks for all the comments, some very insightful ideas here. I think I may just spring for one.

[Tom Miller]

A little grease for the skids.

Regards,
Tom