Table Saw Zero Clearance Inserts?

[SHS76]

I'm new to the forum. I hope this query is in the right place.

I bought a Shop Fox Left 10" Tilt Cabinet saw more than a year ago. I'm still getting used to it after 20 years or so with a Delta Motorized 10" table saw. I could find no place to buy zero clearance inserts for the Shop Fox (that's how I stumbled accross this forum). So I bought a blank phenolic from Rockler's and made my own. On my old Delta the inserts would screw directly to the table. On the Shop Fox the inserts have no provision for screws. Is it safe to use a zero clearance that isn't attached? I've run the saw several times (but haven't cut) and the plate seems to be secure enough.

Brian

[sparkeyjames]

Found this with the first search from google. There does appear to be 4 screws holding down the one in the image.

http://www.amazon.com/GRIZZLY-SHOP-Z.../dp/B000H6FQXS

also here...

http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.co..._16_Jet_P.html

I have a few ZCTP's for my sears 21829 and they are screwed in. On a table saw I would not use a throat plate that was not screwed down or fastened to the table in some fashion. Also call Shop Fox customer service and ask about it I'm pretty sure they could help you out.

[Bill in Buena Park]

Brian,
Welcome to the forum.

I'd be curious to know how the stock TP was attached, and what prevents the ZCTP from getting picked up by the blade and launched across the shop.

[SARGE..g-47]

Those may be height adjuster set screws, Sparky. If Knotscott see's this he can clarify as he has a Shopfox I believe.

Brain.... I make my inserts from 1/2 birch ply. I make a run of about 6 at a time using the metal stock insert for a template to draw off.. trim on a BS or jig-saw to about 2 mm of the line and then attach the metal template to the blank with carpet tape. It goes to the router table it make the exact trim with a over-under pattern router bit.

There is no hold down screws on a Steel City 5 H.P... there were none on my 3 HP Uni-saw or none on my PM 66 from way back when. There only TS's I have owned that had them was a 1972 Craftman contractor and the BT3000. So.. hold-down are not necessary if the insert fits tight like a glove.

Keep in mind you should have clamped a board over it when you raised it to cut the slot for blade by raising the blade so.. once that slot is cut you have nothing to make the insert rise. A tight fit and gravity hold it in place.

Bottom line.. fit it in nicely and go cut wood.

Good luck....

[sweensdv]

......There does appear to be 4 screws holding down the one in the image.

http://www.amazon.com/GRIZZLY-SHOP-Z.../dp/B000H6FQXS

Those screws are for leveling the insert to the saws table top and don't actually screw into anything.

[Bill in Buena Park]

...So.. hold-down are not necessary if the insert fits tight like a glove.

Sarge - assuming the slot is properly cut in the ZCTP - how tight does it's fit in the table have to be? Are we talking about a snug fit, taking some pressure to insert, so that you'd have to drop the blade and use some kind of tool in the slot to extract it when changing TPs?

The thought of a loose ZCTP on my 21829, despite a snug fit, just seems a bit scary.

[SARGE..g-47]

Sarge - assuming the slot is properly cut in the ZCTP - how tight does it's fit in the table have to be? Are we talking about a snug fit, taking some pressure to insert, so that you'd have to drop the blade and use some kind of tool in the slot to extract it when changing TPs?

The thought of a loose ZCTP on my 21829, despite a snug fit, just seems a bit scary.

My stock insert was rather firm so... we duplcating it with using it as the template after tracing and cutting to just outside the line.. the 1/2" birch ply fits even snugger. I do have to kind of pop it down with my palm to get it to seat. I highly suspect the bearing on the pattern bit is just a hair under the width of the cutter blade and leaves it several .000 wider whicy makes a very firm fit.

But.. most stock plates I've had on other TS's fit snug but not that snug if that is any kind of key of just how snug. But.. ask what is going to lift it? Is the blade arbor nut going to come off and allow the blade to seek freedom. Not likely as it has a reverse thread from the direction the blade spins and self tightens. That is why you should snug the arbor nut and maybe another 1/4 turn as it will tighten on it's own more when the blade spins and meets stock.

I am not overly familar with your saw but.. unless the insert is just unusully thin.. I see no reason it it going to lift unless the insert is so loose that the leading edge of stock being moved into it catches a front lip if the insert sits proud of the table (adjusted higher than TS table) and lifts it. There is nothing under the insert that is going to lift it.

So... I personally don't see a concern nor does the makers of the majority of cabinet saw owners. If there had been a past problem.. believe me it would have been changed to a screw down as no company intentionally seeks a litigation law-suit from a customers personal injury due to a known default.

Then ask yourself if you have heard of any problem on these public forums regarding the issue? I haven't and I've been doing them off and on for 8 years. So.. 38 years with TS and around 30 with cabinet saws... it has never been or do I consider it to be a safety issue with me. Some of those stock inserts (Uni-saw especially) are just flat loose.

BTW.. I do drop the blade when changing after un-plugging the saw. Simply to avoid the teeth catching the zero plate blade cut out lifting it off which will wear that slot out sooner. It wears out soon enough as with arbor run out the teeth catch the slot especially on wind down. A wooden plate won't last as long as phenolic and even they won't last forever. But.. I always drill a hole in the front of the plate to use as a finger slot to pull blades off with. If your insert doesn't have a finger hole.. drill one and then it will. :>)

Regards...

[Bill in Buena Park]

Thanks Sarge. The mechanics of it make sense to me - snug fit, slot cut and nothing for blade's teeth to catch and pick up (primarily on upstroke) - there was another thread talking about intermittant blade vibration that had me thinking that any chance of the TK blades deflecting right or left might put teeth into the TP on the upstroke - but appears not to be a problem.

My 21829 is your BT3 rebranded as Craftsman, but on a folding stand. I think the TP has hold-down screws primarily to keep it from falling out when it gets folded up. A drop-in ZCTP might work for it, but I think I'd want it plenty snug before I ever felt comfortable about it.

[SARGE..g-47]

Actually Bill.. if it made you feel more secure, use your stock plate to lay on top of the new insert. Drop a thin punch (I have an old ice family ice pick from bach when I use for this kind of thing) through the screw hole.. mark it and drill a counter-sunk hole in the phenolic. Use the stock screw or a longer if necessary and you have it anchored.

Just a thougth if it really would make you feel better as you don't need mental distractions around any machinery turning cutters.

[Knottscott]

Hi Brian - Sarge has a pretty good memory for guy who's been sniffing saw dust for as long as he has! I bought a SF W1677 last year, which is essentially a Grizzly G1023SL painted white. Any insert that fits a 1023SL should fit the W1677.

I happened to have a brand new Leecraft DL-1U phenolic insert for a Delta Unisaw that also fit my former 22124....it "nearly fit" the SF but needed minor trimming...a few seconds on a belt sander helped it fit like a glove. It has adjustable side screws for a good friction fit. I believe Leecraft actually makes the Grizzly inserts.

BTW - With that saw you can slide the front rail tube over ~ 10" (one bolt hole) to gain some rip capacity on the right side...no drilling needed! The BORK riving knife will fit that saw too. http://walnutacrewoodworking.com/Online_Store.php

Here's a pic of the BORK and the Leecraft DL-1U in my SF:

[SHS76]

Thanks a lot everyone for the help. I had heard that the Shop Fox W1677 (my saw) is a Grizzly of a different color. Why SF doesn't promote it's own zereo clearance insert is a mystery to me. I didn't like having to construct my own out of phenolic via the bandsaw and router table. But I did and it fits very secure although the blade chaffes, I do need to drill a finger hole for ease of removal. The phenolic fit pretty well initially but I added a small strip of masking tape to one end and it's very tight now.

Again, thanks everyone. Brian

[SARGE..g-47]

Morning Scott... I was fortunate enough to meet Ron Lee, the owner of Leecraft at IWF last fall. He comes to the large shows with the largest set of calibers I have ever seen to take measurements of newly introduced TS's. Much to my surprise he is from up the road from me about 20 miles in Gainesville, Ga. and that is where the Leecraft inserts originate from.

He is basically a one man operation using CNC routers which surprised me and similar to Lee at Sharkgaurd. But... with the CNC and doing it full time, not anywhere the complication Lee has with multiple components. Just a blank.. CNC and cut so a 1-2-3 procedure that takes no time and can produce a lot of inserts in one day.

A local (to me) class act guy and is very intent on producing the best TS insert on the market which is mainly what you see at WW stores at this point. He gave me his business card and told me to come up sometime to see the exact procedure. There is a independent saw-mill owner nearby that has some great prices on wood and I may make a combined trip this summer as I am about to finish a desk-hutch and lay off during the hot.. humid months of July and August here in Georgia. So....

Regards...

[Knottscott]

That's pretty cool Sarge. Sounds like it'd be worth a visit to his place. I'd never really given much thought to how simple they are to manufacture. A friend of mine has a big $25K CNC machine...I've watched him make all kinds of neat stuff with it, but inserts never really came to mind.