Buying hand planes

[radhak]

I own just one good plane : the Stanley 60 1/2. Love it.

Now I need to buy three planes : a shoulder plane, a rabbet plane and a mini-router plane. May not be at the same time, but close enough. I love the look of the Veritas, despite it being pricier than the Stanley, while the Lie-Nielsen is just a curiosity; don't see myself going for it (eyeing it's price).

That said, where do I buy? Is Veritas re-sold anywhere other than LV? How about the Stanleys?

(Yes, I know I need to buy a block plane too, but shall get there next )

[jackellis]

You can generally find block planes in good condition for a few dollars on eBay. I find them much more useful than the others, though I confess that my focus has been on building skills with power tools first.

[poolhound]

Veritas products are sold elsewhere but they have such a solid brand image and of course quality product that you wont usually find much variation in prices.

You must have some special project that needs these planes especially as you are putting them ahead of a good block plane. I have three of them (block planes) and I would say that they are the ones I use most. they get used for all sorts of trimming and tuning work including breaking sharp edges flushing joints etc.

[jziegler]

Another option for the shoulder plane that you mioght want to consider is to build one. Woodcraft magazine had an articel on building one from scrap wood back around August, the back issue should be pretty easy to get right now. I picked it up, and the plan is pretty simple. Not a bad weekend project. Also, why rule out the LN? The Veritas medium shoulder plane is $179 and the LN is $195. Not a huge difference, IMO. For the router planes, the difference is a bit more.

I would stay away from new Stanley products, except maybe for the brand new, higher quality line (that I haven't seen available yet). Your best price option would be to look around for used planes. If you have any antique shops or big flea markets around, it's worth looking.

Jim

[Hoover]

It's my understanding that Veritas planes are only sold direct or at Lee Valley stores only. Stanley planes are sold at Lowes, Ace Hardware, etc.

[Tom Miller]

I own just one good plane : the Stanley 60 1/2. Love it.
.
.
.
(Yes, I know I need to buy a block plane too, but shall get there next )

Do you mean you need another, or that the 60 1/2 won't measure up once (if) you start building an arsenal of Veritas or LN? I have a couple-three Veritas planes, including the medium shoulder plane. But my little Stanley block plane gets A LOT of use, partly because it's tuned up and performs very well, and partly because I don't hesitate to use it for things I might not want to use a "better" block plane.

Although I've seen a very small number of Veritas-branded merchandise at local WW stores, it's just low-$$ items; never the planes.

Which rabbet plane are you looking at? Seems like, for simple edge rabbets, the medium shoulder plane could be made to work.

Regards,
Tom

[LarryG]

Jon is right, some Veritas items are sold by vendors other than Lee Valley, but AFAIK Hoover is right, too. I don't recall ever seeing a Veritas plane anywhere except in the LV catalog.

Tom, I think he means a standard-angle block plane, in which case I would say that with a good 60-1/2 already in the stable, this can be a pretty low priority. I have both a L-N standard angle and a low-angle, and find myself reaching for the low-angle most of the time (possibly because I bought it first? I don't know). IMO the best reason for having one of each is so you can set them up differently. I also have an old Millers Falls #75 that I use for rough-and-ready work on iffy material.

Radhak, I have the Veritas medium shoulder plane, bullnose plane, and small router plane. I'm happy with them all (although I just got the router plane and have only played around with it, haven't yet used it on an actual project). I agree with Tom that the medium shoulder plane may be all the "rabbet plane" you need, unless you want to cut grooves narrower than 3/4". Looking at the bigger picture, if you're persuaded you need the capabilities of a given type of plane, I don't think you'll go wrong with either L-N or LV. L-N builds fairly faithful reproductions of old designs, whereas LV tends to do modern interpretations with real and useful improvements. Some think the L-N approach is correct and the LV approach is blasphemy; others are the opposite. I'm pretty equally divided between the two camps myself, so it's just whichever speaks most strongly to you. And, of course, your pocketbook.

[radhak]

Rightly guessed - I want these planes for the immediate need of the project on hand. I have put off buying any planes for more than a year just so I could afford better ones, but now seems to be the right time.

I decided on the veritas because it seems to more idiot-proof in adjustments.
Great comparison here : http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/c...s/sPlanes1.asp

And Larry has explained better than I could have - since I have the 60 1/2, I am able to postpone getting it another at regular angle. I should confess that I do need other, more conventional planes - I don't have any bench planes or jointers eithers.

While on that, anybody tried the cheaper Groz planes? That's a cheap bench plane, but is it workable?

[poolhound]

While on that, anybody tried the cheaper Groz planes? That's a cheap bench plane, but is it workable?

As it happens I have both those planes along with a bunch of older stanleys and sargents. I picked up literally a "bucket" of planes at a yard sale last year with various whole planes and parts. amongst them were these 2 Groz planes. The little block plane is really great it took a little bit of tuning up but I really love it. IIRC there was a review of block planes awhile back and this little groz got high marks. The bench plane (#4 I think) doesnt do quite as well. I havent really spent the time to tune it up right and it tends to chatter. It feels good in my hand and the sole is now pretty true but I think I have an issue with the frog setup.

[Zenaca]

I picked up one of the GROZ low angle block planes last summer on sale at woodcraft for $20 if i remember right.
As poolhound said with just a little fine tuning it is one heck of a nice little plane .


Bud

[jrnewhall]

I picked up the LN rabbeting block plane from Woodcraft when it was on sale about a year ago. http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1269

It is a tremendous tool. I use it for most all the block plane uses others have mentioned as well as all of my tenon and shoulder adjustments. Its only draw back from a shoulder plane is that it is too wide to deepen a dado. So far, I haven't needed to.

It did start me on the slippery slope though. LOML found a #3 and a #4 Bailey from late 40's or early 50's at a local antiques shop - total investment of $40. It took about 3 hours of clean up and sharpening each to be like new. Check the local antiques and thrift stores before you buy new.

(Speaking of new, anybody see the new Woodcraft "Bedrock" line of planes yet?)

[Tom Miller]

...since I have the 60 1/2, I am able to postpone getting it another at regular angle.

OK, I see what you're saying -- and I agree, you could postpone the regular angle. I did, anyway.

While on that, anybody tried the cheaper Groz planes? That's a cheap bench plane, but is it workable?

You could end up spending a lot of time getting this to work well. I got a "store-bought" Stanley #4 a few years back, and although I did get it working, I barely use it. That's because I ended up getting a LV low-angle jack, which is so much easier to use -- no chip breaker to set just right, no fiddling to get the mouth opening just right, etc. etc.

They're not cheap, but the good news is that you can do quite a bit with it (smoothing, miter shooting, jointing, etc. etc.)

Regards,
Tom

[LarryG]

I ended up getting a LV low-angle jack, which is so much easier to use -- no chip breaker to set just right, no fiddling to get the mouth opening just right, etc. etc.

Dagnabbit, Miller, you just had to go and mention this plane again, didn't you? During your extended absence from this here joynt, I'd almost managed to put it completely out of mind ...

My latest addition to the stable is one of these babies. Being "wrong-handed," I got the lefty version after seriously considering one of each. As with the router plane I've only tried it out on scrap but I have several upcoming projects involving face frames on which it should really begin to earn its keep.

[MikeMcCoy]

Dagnabbit, Miller, you just had to go and mention this plane again, didn't you? During your extended absence from this here joynt, I'd almost managed to put it completely out of mind ...

My latest addition to the stable is one of these babies. Being "wrong-handed," I got the lefty version after seriously considering one of each. As with the router plane I've only tried it out on scrap but I have several upcoming projects involving face frames on which it should really begin to earn its keep.

I wouldn't want to keep that plane overly fresh in your mind but that's the one the pushed me over the edge for way too many planes.

[radhak]

You could end up spending a lot of time getting this [Groz] to work well. I got a "store-bought" Stanley #4 a few years back, and although I did get it working, I barely use it. That's because I ended up getting a LV low-angle jack, which is so much easier to use -- no chip breaker to set just right, no fiddling to get the mouth opening just right, etc. etc.

They're not cheap, but the good news is that you can do quite a bit with it (smoothing, miter shooting, jointing, etc. etc.)

Regards,
Tom

Thanks Tom, that's exactly what I was looking for - I am not what you'd call experienced with hand-planes in any way, so I might be better off waiting some more for a veritas.

But as and when that happens, if I could buy just one more plane - should I go for the #4, or for the LA jack?

Ok, to make it easier, which should be first?