Which Is More Useful - Belt Sander or Planer?

[partialresponse]

I expended a lot of energy attempting to smooth and flatten a table top after glue-up with my orbital sander. No fun. So, in the interest of progress, which of these tools would you guys pick for such a job? And why?

Either the Bosch planer

http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Recond...8191308&sr=1-2

or the Bosch belt sander

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1274DVS-...8191401&sr=1-3

I don't have the room for a thickness planer so that's probably out of the question.

Thanks
Kofi

[poolhound]

I wouldnt get a power planer, you will end up taking large chunks out of the top. My father had one and I used it only once, they can easily run away from you and take off much more than you intended.

I would look at this problem in a different way. Firstly if you say you dont have a thickness planer how do you true your stock before glue up, do you use S4S?

Assuming your boards are already an even thickness then carefull glue up using some form of allignment aid, biscuits, T&G, splines or even cauls should give you a surface that can be cleaned up with scrapers and a sharp handplane leaving minimal sanding required.

Another option would be to call a local cabinet shop and rent some time on their widebelt sander. A machine like that can surface a tabletop in a matter of minutes.

If I really had to choose between the two choices you gave then the belt sander would be best. Be careful how you choose to use the grits and dont be tempted to stay too long in one place.

You will still need to finish it with a ROS and dont skip properly running through the various grits.

[Tom Slick]

Belt sander. the power planer can mess things up really fast.

[drumpriest]

Sorry to do this, but neither. And most likely not a thickness planer either, unless your table top were less than 13" or so (or you have lots of $$$ and space for a huge planer). I personally use my drum sander for this work, unless the piece is too large, then I take it to a local cabinet shop and rent time on their time saver wide belt sander. They are nice enough to allow me to do that, and it's cheap enough. Make a few calls and you may find a similar situation.

The other point of discussion is that in future try to clamp cauls across the grain every so often during your glue up, it'll minimize how much sanding or flattening you will have to do.

Traditionalists will tell you to grab a hand plane (jointer plane or even a #5 maybe?) and you can use that to flatten it. If the ridge is really small, I use a card scraper for it. If I wasn't so careful about my glue-up, it's into a wide sander...

hope this helps...

[mpc]

Do a search on this site and in Google for router planing sleds. Basically you make a rigid structure that'll span the tabletop for your router to move on... back and forth over the workpiece. With straight cutting bit that has cutters on the bottom you can (slowly) move over the entire panel smoothing it out. These sleds can look like giant dado or slot cutting jigs, they just have to be rigid so they won't sag from router weight.

mpc

[poolhound]

Do a search on this site and in Google for router planing sleds. Basically you make a rigid structure that'll span the tabletop for your router to move on... back and forth over the workpiece. With straight cutting bit that has cutters on the bottom you can (slowly) move over the entire panel smoothing it out. These sleds can look like giant dado or slot cutting jigs, they just have to be rigid so they won't sag from router weight.

mpc

Thats a good idea but I guess it depends on how big the tabletop is. If its big then the sled will work but it will be very tedious.

Kofi - How big is the top and how many joints and how far out of sq/flat is it?

If we know this it might help us to suggest the best method for you.

[Uncle Cracker]

Seek out a local cabinet shop. Show up about 4pm with a cold 12-pack, and you be in fat city in no time...

[cabinetman]

I wouldnt get a power planer, you will end up taking large chunks out of the top. My father had one and I used it only once, they can easily run away from you and take off much more than you intended.

I would look at this problem in a different way. Firstly if you say you dont have a thickness planer how do you true your stock before glue up, do you use S4S?

Assuming your boards are already an even thickness then carefull glue up using some form of allignment aid, biscuits, T&G, splines or even cauls should give you a surface that can be cleaned up with scrapers and a sharp handplane leaving minimal sanding required.

Another option would be to call a local cabinet shop and rent some time on their widebelt sander. A machine like that can surface a tabletop in a matter of minutes.

If I really had to choose between the two choices you gave then the belt sander would be best. Be careful how you choose to use the grits and dont be tempted to stay too long in one place.

You will still need to finish it with a ROS and dont skip properly running through the various grits.

Good advice. Using a portable planer can go South very fast. Using any tool the first time can be a lesson learner, even one as simple as a phillips screwdriver. Assume for a moment that you never used a phillips screwdriver. Holding one with the proper control and pressure in the screw head, and then turning the screw in tight is a matter of feel and familiarity with pressure. Keeping the screwdriver in the head and not slipping out until the screw is seated could be a chore. Once you have done this, the procedure bears on experience.

There's no difference with any tool. If all you do is turn pens or make bowls, you may never need a belt sander. If you make a Formica laminated cabinet, it can be a very useful tool. I would nix the porto plane. I use one primarily to dress edges if necessary when installing passage doors. It's not an easy tool to use effectively.

Likewise, a belt sander has its own quirks to be used effectively, and its not an easy tool to master without practice. So, for your present question, we're back to "what to use". I would use a well honed handplane if the flattening is minimal enough to get the high spots flat to the lowest spots. Other than that, a handplane falls into the same reasoning about being experienced with its use.

A failsafe method would be to get your glue up as flat as possible. Then make yourself a block sander to be used by hand. I use 3"x21" belt sander belts and cut a piece of 3/4" plywood 3" wide and long enough to force on the belt. Lightly smooth out the sharp edges on the 3" edge so it doesn't tear the belt when inserting. Now you have a large flat sander that's approximately 3" wide and 10" long and easy to hold onto with two sanding surfaces. When sanding with the grain, it will flatten the surface uniformly without gouging or digging. There is a wide range of grits that you can use to warrant making several to be used progressively.

EDIT: Adding another thought, that making a router sled for surfacing for limited use might be an overkill. Sizing the jig and making it adjustable for the project can be a PITA. The larger it is the more unpredictable it would be. Making it for a specific size might be unproductive.

I decided to add another hand tool that I made that I use for wide panel flattening is shown below. It's a scraper made from a planer knife that gets pressed in a saw kerf in 3/4" wood. You may not have a planer knife, and even this large scraper takes some getting used to but can be very effective. I feel that the block sander is the safest fastest and least expensive way to get good results.
.

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[poolhound]

I decided to add another hand tool that I made that I use for wide panel flattening is shown below. It's a scraper made from a planer knife that gets pressed in a saw kerf in 3/4" wood. You may not have a planer knife, and even this large scraper takes some getting used to but can be very effective. I feel that the block sander is the safest fastest and least expensive way to get good results.
.

.

I have seen others make these and as I have a few old planer and jointer blades it might be a way to put them to use.

How do you use it, bevel up using the back of the knife? Also do you regrind the edge as the knives I retire usually have nicks so the edge wouldnt be perfect for scraping either.

[cabinetman]

How do you use it, bevel up using the back of the knife?

I'll send you a PM.
.

[JimD]

I made each of my two children kitchen tables in the last few months. Both are the same design and have tops about 3 foot by 4 foot. I have a planner (not hand held) and used it to surface rough cherry for my daughters table and bought surfaced 5/4 stock for my son's. I have two random orbit sanders, a DeWalt 6 inch and a Milwaukee 5 inch. I also have a Ryobi 3x21 belt sander that looks a lot like the Bosch rebuilt you illustrate. I put biscuits every six inches in the boards for alignment starting 3 inches from the end.

I tried my belt sander versus my 6 inch ROS and I think it was pretty close to a tossup which would flatten the surface faster. I probably depends on how new the belt and disc were which is faster - certainly no huge difference. The 5 inch ROS is slower and I did not try it for this but my guess is it is still not a major difference. I probably spent a couple hours on each table top to sand each side through 220 grit. Most of the time was spent with 80 grit eliminating minor height differences between the boards in the top. In the case of the cherry, the boards were the same thickness, they just weren't perfectly flat so they moved a little versus each other. I don't think the oak was as consistent in thickness but I do not think it mattered.

My bottom line is that if you have a good ROS, you may just want to start with a new and possibly coarser disk rather than getting a different sander. If you want a belt sander, the Ryobi 3x21 is about $100 new and works well, it got a best buy from one of the magazines, I think it was FWW. I have a Bosch jig saw and Colt router so I like Bosch fine, I just think that the Ryobi belt sander is one of their better tools and thus a better buy.

Jim

[partialresponse]

Thanks for all the comments guys. It seems clear that the power planer is not recommended. And there is probably a less expensive belt sander that may possibly save a little effort. The 'table top' I mentioned was not really on a table - it was this project...

http://bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=40263

I would have liked a smoother top than I got (it's about 23" X 52"). And I did use biscuits (and cauls during clamping) to assemble it. In retrospect my concern is not as much achieving a (relatively large) flat surface as it is achieving one that is smooth. The original lumber was S2S1E.

Many thanks
Kofi

[JimD]

Kofi,

I am not sure what you mean that your result was not smooth. Do you mean it has slight dips and peaks - not completely flat - or that some areas did not get sanded to the same smoothness as others?

I get dips and peaks too. I try to minimize them by using a sander with a fairly rigid pad and by moving it a lot rather than letting it sit in one spot until that area is smooth. Moving the sander slowly but deliberately back and forth over the surface being sanded also helps to ensure each area is sanded adequately. Moving the sander is expecially important with a belt sander because they want to dig in on the sides.

Your project looks nice - and the surface you were sanding seems similar in area to the tables I mentioned.

Jim