Plane people question

[Russianwolf]

Okay, since Patrick is buying my jointer an dplaner, I am going to have to invest in better planes than what I currently have.

Now obviously getting an old Stanley (Bedrock) is always desirable and I'm on the look out, but I was wondering if any of you had any experience with or heard anything about the planes offered by Grizzly. Some are shopfox branded and others aren't. The ones that aren't have up to 22" soles for $50.

Another question, is there really any benefot to a serated sole?

Here they are

http://www.grizzly.com/products/sear...s.aspx?q=plane

[eddy merckx]

Hey Mike

I haven't heard much good about the Grizzly planes. I'm pretty sure they're inferior even by "made in India" plane standards. The usual complaints are that the mouth is too wide for fine work and the machining is really rough. I'll bet you could spend 20+ hours getting one of those to work after you replaced the iron.

I bought a Stanley #7 on ebay last year for $35. They were fairly plentiful then. I'm pretty sure they still are.

The old Stanleys still require some work, but nowhere near as much. You still have to replace the iron. I really like those Veritas irons. They're ready to use right out of the box.

BTW, jointers are really satisfying to use. They just lop those high spots right off.

Good luck,
Eddy

[jackellis]

I've caught the plane collectors disease and have several in various stages of refurbishment. I'm still a rank amateur with planes but I sure have learned a few things.

FWIW, at least one pundit thinks the Stanley bedrocks are overrated (see supertool.com below). I have several from Millers Falls, Sargent, Record and Bailey. None cost more than $30 and most are not what you'd call collector's items, though I did just splurge on a very nice Millers 22" jointer to go with a Bailey #7 that's old and beat up. I have to make new totes for several of my planes, which will be quite a learning experience.

I have three newer Stanleys that are going to my brother because I don't like 'em and he won't care, but I can take nice enough shavings with them once I get them properly adjusted.

Unless you're willing to spend for one of the really nice new planes, buying a couple of older ones and fixing them up to the extent they're usable is a great learning experience and quite satisfying. I get the rust off (ordinary household vinegar and a brass brush), wax everything (no chance of oil contaminating a workpiece that way), sharpen and flatten the iron (scary sharp), flatten the sole, fix the chipbreaker, then set depth. I don't bother with electrolysis or shining things up or replacing the japanning. These are to use, not to sell.

Some links you might find helpful:
Dealer's site with photos http://www.antique-used-tools.com/
Page on Sargent planes http://www.thckk.org/sargent.html
Bench plane cross reference table http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/planexfre.pdf
Excellent reference on Stanley planes http://www.supertool.com/
Millers Falls plane reference http://oldtoolheaven.com/

I have a distinct preference for planes that allow the frog to be adjusted without having to remove the iron. Much easier to set them up that way. For the same price, I'll take a "better" model over a more generic model. I accidentally bought a Millers Falls 814 that's not as nice or as well made as the Millers Falls #14. The 814 has a softwood tote and knob, and supposedly the fit and finish is somewhat inferior. Same for Dunlops, which were made by MF for Sears.

At this stage, I'm convinced it's more important to do whatever is necessary to avoid chatter than it is to get the mouth smaller for fine work, especially after I got chatter with a Hock iron and chip breaker with the frog set a bit forward of the back of the mouth. For smoothing, I take lighter cuts and make sure the iron is firmly against both the frog and the sole at the back of the mouth. Not the definitive word on how to do this but it's worked for me so far.

[LarryG]

Another question, is there really any benefot to a serated sole?

This seems to be one of those "It depends who you ask" questions. My Millers Falls smooth plane (a 9C, purchased from germdoc) has a corrugated sole, my Stanley jack and jointer do not. I can't say that I see the corrugated sole having any real benefit over a good coat of wax. Nor does it seem to hurt anything. IINM, hand plane guru Garrett Hack thinks likewise.

I've been looking for a couple more used planes and among the contenders, some have corrugated soles and some don't. I really don't care one way or the other; I would put both price and overall condition ahead of this "feature."

[cabinetman]

Serrated soles are intended to reduce friction for final smoothing. I use my planes dry sole, any additive such as wax IMO could contaminate the wood.
.

[Workman]

Perhaps more important than which type of plane to buy is knowing that proper sharpening is the key to success with any plane. There are many ways to sharpen. I have had my best success with a Woodcraft slow-speed horizontal grinder (like the Makita, but the stone is 7" rather than 8") with the "planer/jointer" attachment and a 2-way blade holding jig and instructions on use from Highland Hardware (the instructions are for the Makita sharpener), followed with honing on micro film paper (Pinnacle maybe?). Others prefer the hand "scary sharp" system. After you get the sharpening thing down, then you can get into the literature on bevel-up and bevel-down, corrugated sole vs. flat sole, Miller Falls three point frog vs. Stanley, movable frogs as in Bedrocks vs. fixed Stanley Baileys, historicity and features related to time of manufacture (e.g small adjustment knobs through Type 11 or 12, thicker/courser materials of war-time planes, etc.) As you are aware, some of these things matter to the collectors more than the users - or just different things matter to these two groups. In reality, a plane is no more than a jig to push a chisel across wood, BUT some jigs are better than others!

[cabinetman]

Ah, I just knew I could count on the celebrated "cabinetman" to find fault with something I wrote.

LOTS of people apply wax to their hand tools, primarily to prevent rust, without problems to the wood and the finishes. And they wax the tops of their workbenches and assembly tables, too.

Sheesh. Is this EVER going to end?

You think there is something ongoing, whereas I'm simply stating my opinion on my methods. Did I find fault? Did I say you were wrong? My opinion is open for discussion just like yours. I do find some methods used by others interesting. Those that wish to wax their tools and workbenches are absolutely free to do so. None of us has the ONLY answer, not even LarryG.
.

[gjat]

At this stage, I'm convinced it's more important to do whatever is necessary to avoid chatter than it is to get the mouth smaller for fine work, especially after I got chatter with a Hock iron and chip breaker with the frog set a bit forward of the back of the mouth. For smoothing, I take lighter cuts and make sure the iron is firmly against both the frog and the sole at the back of the mouth. Not the definitive word on how to do this but it's worked for me so far.

Setting the frog and chip breaker while worrying about the size of the mouth seems complicated. How do you figure out how to set it all up once you get it sharp?

[Workman]

Gjat: Setting the frog and chip breaker while worrying about the size of the mouth seems complicated. How do you figure out how to set it all up once you get it sharp?

Depends on the plane - Stanley Baileys fiddle around with frog adjustment screw and frog clamping screws while adjusting blade depth, etc. and usually leave it set once you get there. Stanley Bedrocks just adjust the frog adjusting screw. Block planes (most) adjust the throat opening by moving the nose of the plane.

[jackellis]

Setting the frog and chip breaker while worrying about the size of the mouth seems complicated. How do you figure out how to set it all up once you get it sharp?

I don't worry too much about the size of the mouth. I set the chip breaker as close as I can to the edge of the iron. I set the frog so the iron is either close to or touching the back of the mouth so the sole supports the iron closer to the point of contact with the workpiece. My objective, which might be different than conventional wisdom, is to keep the iron from chattering and tearing things up. It's possible that I'm leaving the mouth too wide, which could create other problems, but I plan on taking thin shavings rather than trying to hog off material.

[Pappy]

Any plane can be tuned and set to pruduce good results. I did it to a $5 Wally World special just to see if I could...then trashed it!

If you were going to spend 4 or 5 hours using a #6,#7, or #8 the lessened drag with a corrugated sole might be beneficial. For home shop use, no. If you want to lap the sole perfectly flat over it's entire length, there would be less metal to cut.

I wax mine to help with rust.

[Russianwolf]

one down

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300212322712

So how did I do? $30.06 for a Stanley #5 that looks to be in nice shape.

Now I need something in the #7 range. Then maybe a scraper plane like a #112. Then.....

[jonmulzer]

I just bought my first yesterday. A 1940's Stanley #4. I thought to myself that I would get this one, sharpen it up, try it out, see if I like it. I got it home, took it apart and checked out the engineering and called the guy back to let him know I would talk the #5, #7 and #8 he had also and to hold on to them for me. Down the slippery slope for myself also I suppose.

[jackellis]

I'm in the process of trying to fix an older Stanley #4. Unfortunately, the frog adjustment screw seems to be rusted solidly in place. The downside of buying planes sight unseen and a reminder to ask whether all the parts move as they should.

I can probably make this one usable but it ticks me off that I can't get the rusted screw out.

[Pappy]

From the description, the seller seemed to know about planes. Looks to be in good shape with decent iron length.